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Old 07-06-2009, 07:10 PM   #121
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ACORN would be less of a problem if they didn't have regulations that they could use as an excuse to bully bankers into making risky loans. changes?
I could be wrong, as the whole thing is a bit of a tangled web, but to be honest, this reads to me as naive regarding the ways of Wall Street. I would see it as the other way around to how your post presents it - Wall St came up with the product, and aggressively marketed to a constituency which organisations such as ACORN represent. Read up on Lewie Ranieri, etc.

I actually remember doing accounts for CMO type products for a bank as far back in 2000, and even then, they weren't brand new.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:11 PM   #122
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Um, have you read Oscar's posts?
I've read a decent amount. I don't always agree with them, but as Purpleoscar quite rightly says, conservatism is a broader constituency than is often represented.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:36 PM   #123
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Wall St came up with the product, and aggressively marketed to a constituency which organisations such as ACORN represent. Read up on Lewie Ranieri, etc.

I actually remember doing accounts for CMO type products for a bank as far back in 2000, and even then, they weren't brand new.
oh shit, we agree on something...

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I've read a decent amount. I don't always agree with them, but as Purpleoscar quite rightly says, conservatism is a broader constituency than is often represented.
Well my point was the irony. You pretty much described his posts to a 'T', he has some of the most long winded non-sequiturs I've seen in FYM.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:36 PM   #124
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Well, you're here long enough to see that BVS always thinks that wearing people down by pedantry and non-sequiturs is winning the argument.
As stated by me before, I agree with 99.9% of BVS's viewpoints, but I also agree that his "debating" style leaves a lot to be desired. Not that the Internet is all that conducive to debating anyway, as Tiger Edge astutely pointed out.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:28 PM   #125
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Economic freedom for who? The Rush Limbaugh's of the world? Your form of "economic freedom" makes slaves of many...
If people have the opportunity to save then they have the opportunity for economic freedom. Without economic freedom it's hard to really feel free. Most other countries that have higher taxes or enormous government corruption don't have the same opportunities. It's nice to see Americans on average moving up to 6% on their savings rate. If only they kept that consistent then the consumption would be more sustainable.

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Iraq war, lots of fucking bullying their on an international standpoint and a domestic one. Ban on gay marriage, lots of bullying there. Being on the wrong side of every social issue since the birth of the U.S. lots of bullying...
Well in Iraq you've got a bully that was taken out of power and I'm pretty sure nobody wants to go back to what that was like when Sadaam was in power. Whether we can take for granted his assertion that he pretended to have more weapons than he had to scare Iran and that he didn't want weapons inspectors because he didn't want to pay their costs we may never know. The Taliban are a bunch of bullies and they need to be taken out. I'm glad Obama is allowing a surge there to finish those maniacs off.

The ban on gay marriage doesn't stop gays from having relationships. Any conservatives that want to physically hurt gay people are cave dwellers and should go to jail. As the generations change the definition of marriage will change. Allowing gay marriage in Canada doesn't stop people from having traditional marriages in Churches with their own beliefs so many conservatives (whatever their beliefs) will eventually worry about other issues. When it comes to being wrong on every social issue you are conflating conservatives of the past. Much of conservatism is defending what was considered liberal before. On the abortion issue I don't agree because I value the unborn at the same level as those are born. Liberals value choice because the baby requires the mothers womb.

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So you're really the one avoiding debate by throwing all these accusations of bullying.
Whatever. I don't think so. As weak has conservatives have been in the past about some social issues the left is as weak on economics. Even when Republicans copy those economic ideas the results are the same. Big deficits followed by higher interest rates and taxes.

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Oh, her options(politically) are over. She might make a good GOP fund raiser speaker but she'll never hold a real office again.
Well we have to wait and see if she feels that way or not. My main point that Irvine pounced on was that conservatives need to be able to take the bullying in the media if they want to achieve success since 24 hour news and the internet turn up the heat. Frivolous lawsuits are costly and being target of political comedy will age a person quickly. A lot of people would prefer to advise a politician than actually walk around with a target sign on them.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:41 PM   #126
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Read up on Lewie Ranieri, etc.
Thanks.

Uncommon Knowledge on National Review Online

I'm going to see what Thomas Sowell has to say as well.

Certainly this doesn't help:

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2008/...4999572928.txt

I also would like to know what solutions the government is currently thinking of, because if sub-prime loans are risky (duh!) then would Democrats want to regulate and outlaw loans to poor people? Would that open them up for criticism?
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:43 PM   #127
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Well, you're here long enough to see that BVS always thinks that wearing people down by pedantry and non-sequiturs is winning the argument.
I have to admit he's good at getting people to write long responses and to hunt for internet evidence while he gets away with a couple of lines. My hands can get worn out.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:19 AM   #128
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Back on topic:

Palin Blasts Critics, Remains Mum on 2012 Bid - Political News - FOXNews.com

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"Not having talked to the governor, I take 2012 off the table right now simply because given everything she's going through personally, dealing with the financial mess that all these ludicrous investigations have put her and Todd in, at the moment, I think she's trying to focus on getting her house in order, her personal house in order," Steele told FOX News.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:33 AM   #129
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Well we have to wait and see if she feels that way or not.
I don't think it has much to do with what she's feeling. It would take a miracle for her to survive this and run for office especially President. She's pissed off a lot of her base.

She would have to come out of these scandals completely squeaky clean. Survive the quitter stigma. And somehow come off a lot more informed and intelligent. I just don't think she's up to all of this.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:42 AM   #130
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Anyway...

She needs and wants to make money and for other reasons this could actually turn out to be a smart move on her part. Stranger things have happened, especially in politics.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:57 AM   #131
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I don't think it has much to do with what she's feeling. It would take a miracle for her to survive this and run for office especially President. She's pissed off a lot of her base.

She would have to come out of these scandals completely squeaky clean. Survive the quitter stigma. And somehow come off a lot more informed and intelligent. I just don't think she's up to all of this.
She used to seem like the type to charge ahead regardless but these legal bills have made her bitter. Certainly if she has ambitions for the top job her effort would have to be unprecedented to turn any heads. Anyways for conservatives to rely only on her instead of developing a pool of talent is sad. Palin looks better than many of these congressmen boning mistresses.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:06 AM   #132
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She used to seem like the type to charge ahead regardless but these legal bills have made her bitter.
This is why I really don't buy her story. I think there is more to it, but this was a conveinient story. I think she's either scared because the scandals are somewhat true. She just realized she was never cut out for this, or some combination of the two...

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Anyways for conservatives to rely only on her instead of developing a pool of talent is sad.
I agree whole-heartedly.

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Palin looks better than many of these congressmen boning mistresses.
Um, ok...
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:55 PM   #133
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If she doesn't currently have active plans to run in 2012--and she indicated today that she doesn't--then her stated reasons for resigning do make a bit more sense, even if displaying less persistence than might have been expected. Perhaps her willingness to grin-and-bear-it in the face of obstacles of the sort which can't be readily countered merely by rallying your vote base has been overestimated. Frustrating episodes of legislative, procedural and/or legal gridlock just come with the territory in politics; no one's going to be able to charge full speed ahead all the time, so patience is just as important as 'backbone.'

Between the online 'trust fund' she set up to collect donations towards her legal bills, the advance on her forthcoming book, and the newfound flexibility to accept lucrative speaking engagements, I'd imagine it shouldn't take her too long to pay off her legal expenses. Those must have accrued mostly, if not entirely, from just two cases, 'Troopergate' plus the case involving use of state funds to cover her children's travel costs over several trips. Everything else was dismissed as being without merit before even making it to the hearing stage, so state funds would be covering any preliminary investigative costs there. Which of course is the fate of most ethics complaints filed in most states, so I don't see how her situation is particularly unique in this regard.
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Old 07-08-2009, 07:11 AM   #134
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^ Doesn't matter.

Nobody is going to make an announcement to run this soon unless they want to be bombarded with public scrutiny.

As for Palin, I empathize with her on the frivilous lawsuits. However, it's a huge mistake. It may open doors for other opportunities, but it's also a liability for her to live down for the rest of her career. If she should run in 2012, and a lot of people want her to, critics and swing voters are going to wonder what she will do under a Democrat controlled Congress and more legal fees to come.

She should run for the Senate.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:34 AM   #135
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Welcome back Mac...
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