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Old 07-06-2009, 03:16 PM   #106
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That poster isn't even in the US anyway.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:16 PM   #107
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If sarah palin's parents had a TARDIS and traveled to the future to see what their lovin' wrought, do you think they would have aborted her?

Glad she's gone, she is an evil human being. Making women pay for thier rape kits... who knew a woman would be so protective or rapists.

If she is ever President, everyone outght to say goodbye to living...but I doubt that she'd win, even in America...




not cool.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:19 PM   #108
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Really?? Minus the bank bailout, Bush ran his presidency from the conservative handbook. Less regulation on the economy, not much priority on the education system, neo-con foreign policy, tax cuts on the rich with hardly anything on the middle class. Bush was a conservative. Anyone who says that Bush wasn't really a conservative is delusional. Other than the bank bailouts, what did Bush do that was against the conservative principles??
His education spending (no child left behind) and healthcare spending (prescription drug benefit) couldn't be paid for by taxcuts and didn't have any real impact. His foreign policy was supported by some (me) and not others in the conservative camp. Conservatives are a loose group of people and they don't always agree (Social vs. fiscal conservatives/Military hawks vs. Libertarians).

BTW the problem with the middle class is not the taxes, because they don't pay as much compared to Europeans, but the lack of savings. Of course they are starting to save in the U.S. more because they are getting scared and know that taxes are coming soon one way or another.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:28 PM   #109
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You bring this up every few months, do you think we forget? I showed you point by point how Rush and conservatives have used "Alinsky" tactics with specific examples, or maybe you have forgotten.
No I haven't and I don't think you won that argument. Even if I agree with your premise how would it be good for Obama to do it? Obama had the opportunity to balance the budget and side step cap and trade and look like the fiscally responsible one. That would have REALLY damaged Republicans for a long time even without bimbo eruptions. I want to see what the Democrats popularity will be if cap and trade and healthcare reforms pass and especially after he raises taxes to pay for it.

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Can you show me a specific example how ACORN has bullied you.
They didn't because I didn't invest in subprime mortgaged backed investments. But those who did......too bad I guess. You can't force banks to give risky loans for people (whatever the intentions) without investors at the other end taking the risk.

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Um yeah, ok...
Face it we don't agree on most things.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:34 PM   #110
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Are we really looking to win arguments at FYM? That implies someone would have to lose, and nobody loses on the internet.

What you can do is see things objectively, and not be as dogmatic as you are in your own head. I guess it's hard to do this when there's not a face staring back at you.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:38 PM   #111
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No I haven't and I don't think you won that argument.
You ended up agreeing with me and admitting the tactics were used by both sides.
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Even if I agree with your premise how would it be good for Obama to do it? Obama had the opportunity to balance the budget and side step cap and trade and look like the fiscally responsible one. That would have REALLY damaged Republicans for a long time even without bimbo eruptions. I want to see what the Democrats popularity will be if cap and trade and healthcare reforms pass and especially after he raises taxes to pay for it.
See, I really have no clue what this has to do with the current conversation. And I would dismantle this premise but I don't want to spin too far off topic...


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They didn't because I didn't invest in subprime mortgaged backed investments. But those who did......too bad I guess. You can't force banks to give risky loans for people (whatever the intentions) without investors at the other end taking the risk.
Well this is a very very very simplified Hannity version of ACORN's involvement. You might want to look into what ACORN really does, but not through the eyes of a conservative radio host or blogger.


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Face it we don't agree on most things.
It had nothing to do with disagreeing, it just didn't make any sense nor was it relevant to the conversation.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:57 PM   #112
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Palin threatens to sue media...

Howard Schweber: Sarah Palin, the First Amendment, and Santa Claus
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:25 PM   #113
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His education spending (no child left behind) and healthcare spending (prescription drug benefit) couldn't be paid for by taxcuts and didn't have any real impact. His foreign policy was supported by some (me) and not others in the conservative camp. Conservatives are a loose group of people and they don't always agree (Social vs. fiscal conservatives/Military hawks vs. Libertarians).

BTW the problem with the middle class is not the taxes, because they don't pay as much compared to Europeans, but the lack of savings. Of course they are starting to save in the U.S. more because they are getting scared and know that taxes are coming soon one way or another.
right be the current republican viewpoint is that government should intervene as little as possible in the free market, education, health care, environmental, etc... but should make sure that "family values" are protected. While there are many breeds, the conservative philosophy that the republican party stands for today was followed practically to the dot by George W Bush. It funny that the GOP is now trying to separate themselves from W as if he was not a true conservative, when it truly is just the opposite.

and as far as tax cuts, it is proven that when the middle class (who provide most of the jobs in this country) get tax breaks, (as in the gov sending some of their money back to them), then the entire economy ends up doing better because of the middle class which buys the most products, employs the most people, etc...
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:52 PM   #114
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right be the current republican viewpoint is that government should intervene as little as possible in the free market, education, health care, environmental, etc... but should make sure that "family values" are protected. While there are many breeds, the conservative philosophy that the republican party stands for today was followed practically to the dot by George W Bush. It funny that the GOP is now trying to separate themselves from W as if he was not a true conservative, when it truly is just the opposite.
Obviously I preferred Bush to Gore or Kerry but there were divisions as there always was. There are divisions in the Democratic party as well but now they have a majority. The conservatives are vying for common ground at the moment.

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and as far as tax cuts, it is proven that when the middle class (who provide most of the jobs in this country) get tax breaks, (as in the gov sending some of their money back to them), then the entire economy ends up doing better because of the middle class which buys the most products, employs the most people, etc...
Many in the middle and lower classes are getting tax credits (subsidies) that drain social security (which has billions in unfunded liabilities already). And buying goods when there is high personal and government debt is just delaying the inevitable. Most of the west is not actually paying for what they want and in order for investors to take the west seriously they need to see that their investments in government bonds can actually be paid back. This may mean they will demand higher interest rates which will increase borrowing costs at a time when many are just getting by. This economy will take a long time to recover. I'm all for real tax cuts (especially corporate tax cuts) but these cuts have to be paid for with lower spending and I don't see that.

What I want to see from Obama is better regulations and stopping subprime loans from being available. Also property rights need to be defended and any regulations that prevent assets from being sold over and over again so debt responsibilities can't be spread beyond recognition I would support. ACORN would be less of a problem if they didn't have regulations that they could use as an excuse to bully bankers into making risky loans. Hopefully if the Senate blocks his cap and trade bill Obama should just leave it be and so should Congress. If they need tax revenue they should raise taxes or lower spending. Health care has to be paid for so again, where's the money to pay for these changes?
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:04 PM   #115
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So I heard Palin quit
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:17 PM   #116
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You ended up agreeing with me and admitting the tactics were used by both sides.
I agreed with you on some areas but others I disagreed. Talk radio is not a bunch of community organizers because their ends are totally different. Conservatives want economic freedom which would be less bullying than massive tax hikes to pay for huge programs. If ACORN got their way all the time the tax rate to pay for their projects would be untenable. Again why would it be good for either side to bully unless it's just a way to avoid debates about issues? Rush Limbaugh is not bullying people to pay for other people's mortgages.

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See, I really have no clue what this has to do with the current conversation. And I would dismantle this premise but I don't want to spin too far off topic...
Eg. If social programs (like cap and trade) create bureaucracies that interfere (bully) the public by micromanaging their energy use.

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Well this is a very very very simplified Hannity version of ACORN's involvement. You might want to look into what ACORN really does, but not through the eyes of a conservative radio host or blogger.
Whatever their intentions are, "affordable housing" is a euphemism as much as "compassionate" conservatism is. Who wants to invest in risky loans knowingly? That's how debates should be framed. When someone is against ACORN suddenly the person is against "affordable housing", and when you add "redlining" then they are also racist too. But when the question is framed: "Who is going to invest in these mortgages?" the premise then falls apart. Many conservatives back then were too scared to stand up for property rights and I admonish many of the bankers who gave in. Conservatives need to stand up to bullying tactics if they want to have any chance of winning in the future. Sarah Palin may have trouble paying for legal attacks that force her to consider her options, but whatever conservative leader makes it through the primaries needs to stand up for conservatism and not try and copy liberals because of a fear of a media backlash or blogger snickering. With the technology we have now and a 24 hour newscycle relentless criticism is par for the course.
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:38 PM   #117
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I agreed with you on some areas but others I disagreed. Talk radio is not a bunch of community organizers because their ends are totally different. Conservatives want economic freedom which would be less bullying than massive tax hikes to pay for huge programs. If ACORN got their way all the time the tax rate to pay for their projects would be untenable. Again why would it be good for either side to bully unless it's just a way to avoid debates about issues? Rush Limbaugh is not bullying people to pay for other people's mortgages.
Economic freedom for who? The Rush Limbaugh's of the world? Your form of "economic freedom" makes slaves of many...

Iraq war, lots of fucking bullying their on an international standpoint and a domestic one. Ban on gay marriage, lots of bullying there. Being on the wrong side of every social issue since the birth of the U.S. lots of bullying...

So you're really the one avoiding debate by throwing all these accusations of bullying.





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Sarah Palin may have trouble paying for legal attacks that force her to consider her options,
Oh, her options(politically) are over. She might make a good GOP fund raiser speaker but she'll never hold a real office again.
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:59 PM   #118
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Really?? Minus the bank bailout, Bush ran his presidency from the conservative handbook. Less regulation on the economy, not much priority on the education system, neo-con foreign policy, tax cuts on the rich with hardly anything on the middle class. Bush was a conservative. Anyone who says that Bush wasn't really a conservative is delusional. Other than the bank bailouts, what did Bush do that was against the conservative principles??

I'd take you up on that - he didn't reduce the overall size of the federal government (he did the opposite), and was more than happy to interfere in the market place to enhance his reputation or for electoral success.

The abortion rate does seem to have gone down, which is about the only success of his administration from a conservative standpoint.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:01 PM   #119
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No I haven't and I don't think you won that argument.
Well, you're here long enough to see that BVS always thinks that wearing people down by pedantry and non-sequiturs is winning the argument.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:05 PM   #120
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Well, you're here long enough to see that BVS always thinks that wearing people down by pedantry and non-sequiturs is winning the argument.
Um, have you read Oscar's posts?
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