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Old 10-21-2009, 10:41 PM   #496
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No. It goes further than that. The Romneys didn't get this. The McCains didn't get this. The Bushes didn't even get this. I have a hard time coming up with one American family, politics or not, that has been ridiculed, attacked, and trashed the way the Palins have. There's something more.
Did Laura Bush come off that uninformed? Did she preach abstinence and have a knocked up daughter?

Palin has come off as THE most uninformed politician I can remember, and that's saying a hell of a lot.


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So I take it you're someone who thinks families are acceptable targets during political campaigns? I mean, if they are during the middle of an administration, certainly family is fair game during an election, right? And tell me, since the Palins could stop all the attacks at any time, what could be done to stop the attacks on Bristol? Or on the idea that Trig isn't actually Sarah's child? I'm curious what the Palins could do to get those ridiculous attacks to cease.
Palin put her family in the spotlight, fact of life. Letterman was out of line but only because he didn't do his research and find out which daughter it was... You're probably too young to remember how Republicans treated Chelsea(especially Rush), and she wasn't even a contradiction or getting falling down drunk at bars underage.

Do not play victim, Palin did this to herself and family.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:44 PM   #497
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Plus, Dennis Kucinch marrying a woman young enough to be his daughter. Not that I have a problem with that, but why haven't we had a 33 page thread on it?
Because he didn't preach against it, it's not that difficult to figure out...

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It's hard to avoid the conclusion that some on the left have a problem with a woman that has a successful career, raises a family, and advocates for traditional values. It's hard to avoid at the very least speculating that part of the left is saying there are only certain types of acceptable political viewpoints for successful career women.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:50 PM   #498
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Letterman was out of line but only because he didn't do his research and find out which daughter it was....
That's an interesting point of view. I think he's a nasty and sleazy hypocrite, a player to cheap laughs, and has been dramatically exposed as such recently, so I guess we have different points of view on this.

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You're probably too young to remember how Republicans treated Chelsea(especially Rush), and she wasn't even a contradiction or getting falling down drunk at bars underage.
Well, I'm not too young to remember, and I don't listen to Rush, but as I recall it, the media were largely told - and complied - with an edict from the Clintonian White House to stay the heck away from Chelsea. I don't have a problem with this, but I do think there's a level of hyprocisy in the media treatment of some politicians' offspring as compared to others.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:54 PM   #499
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Because he didn't preach against it, it's not that difficult to figure out...



Hypocrisy is one of the more venal sins.

You neatly sidestep the questions around Dave Letterman's arrant and obvious hypocrisy, whilst leaping on to a conservative political family's alleged hypocrisy.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:56 PM   #500
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That's an interesting point of view. I think he's a nasty and sleazy hypocrite, a player to cheap laughs, and has been dramatically exposed as such recently, so I guess we have different points of view on this.
Nasty and sleazy, that's fine, that's your opinion and I can understand, but hypocrite? How so?


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Well, I'm not too young to remember, and I don't listen to Rush, but as I recall it, the media were largely told - and complied - with an edict from the Clintonian White House to stay the heck away from Chelsea. I don't have a problem with this, but I do think there's a level of hyprocisy in the media treatment of some politicians' offspring as compared to others.
The media, especially the right made quite a bit of fun about her looks.

None of this supports your conspiracy theory though...
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:57 PM   #501
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Hypocrisy is one of the more venal sins.

You neatly sidestep the questions around Dave Letterman's arrant and obvious hypocrisy, whilst leaping on to a conservative political family's alleged hypocrisy.
Please explain, I would love to hear this...
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:58 PM   #502
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Did Laura Bush come off that uninformed? Did she preach abstinence and have a knocked up daughter?
What does Laura Bush have to do with any of this?

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Palin has come off as THE most uninformed politician I can remember, and that's saying a hell of a lot.
We're never going to agree here, so no point in trying to debate this.

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Palin put her family in the spotlight, fact of life. Letterman was out of line but only because he didn't do his research and find out which daughter it was... You're probably too young to remember how Republicans treated Chelsea(especially Rush), and she wasn't even a contradiction or getting falling down drunk at bars underage.
Can you give me examples of attacks on Chelsea? Besides the one Rush quote and the one McCain quote that I know of.

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Do not play victim, Palin did this to herself and family.
I'm not talking about what Sarah Palin did. Don't people like you have any sort of decency attacking a family? They lost. Congratulations. Is your life that boring and uninteresting that you have to endlessly go after a family that you'll probably never hear about again with the exception of an occasional book? How Irvine says he's "forced" to listen to her is still unbelievably baffling to me...

And I take it anytime you demonstrate hypocrisy, that's grounds for you be to ridiculed and maligned for the rest of your life? Got it.

I guess that's just the difference between you and I. If Hillary had "preached" abstinence, and then Chelsea got pregnant at 18, I would never think of using that for political points, or even for a cheap, immature laugh.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:07 PM   #503
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So I take it you're someone who thinks families are acceptable targets during political campaigns? I mean, if they are during the middle of an administration, certainly family is fair game during an election, right? And tell me, since the Palins could stop all the attacks at any time, what could be done to stop the attacks on Bristol? Or on the idea that Trig isn't actually Sarah's child? I'm curious what the Palins could do to get those ridiculous attacks to cease.
Oh please. You have to know they trotted their kids out any time they thought they could get any attention from it. Once Palin did that -- and kept doing it -- of course they were going to get mauled by the political/media machines.

Since financeguy's post was about the current chatter about them, my response was also about the current chatter about them. So, yes, there would have been interest and comments about the kids during the campaign no matter what the Palins did, but it would not have been nearly as brutal without her whoring her kids out at every opportunity. The way to stop it? Don't treat the kids like fucking commodities to be used to garner votes/sympathy/money, especially now. They can keep their underage kids out of the public eye, but have chosen to use them for publicity instead. I feel sorry for the kids, but the parents used them mercilessly and as such (the parents) get absolutely no sympathy from me. I find them particularly despicable.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:08 PM   #504
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What does Laura Bush have to do with any of this?
You mentioned the Bushes. Just insert any name in that question and the answer will be the same.


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We're never going to agree here, so no point in trying to debate this.
It's just a sad fact.


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Can you give me examples of attacks on Chelsea? Besides the one Rush quote and the one McCain quote that I know of.
She didn't do much so they just made fun of her awkward looks... But the two you listed should be enough, can you think of a direct quote from Obama about Palin's family?

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I'm not talking about what Sarah Palin did. Don't people like you have any sort of decency attacking a family? They lost. Congratulations. Is your life that boring and uninteresting that you have to endlessly go after a family that you'll probably never hear about again with the exception of an occasional book? How Irvine says he's "forced" to listen to her is still unbelievably baffling to me...
Don't ever fucking question my decency. I'm telling you how media works, nothing more, nothing less.

But I am glad you think we'll never hear from her again, it shows me some of you are growing up and moving on.

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And I take it anytime you demonstrate hypocrisy, that's grounds for you be to ridiculed and maligned for the rest of your life? Got it.
If it's in public, unfortunately yes, until I do something to make people forget about it. Once again, I'm just telling you how the public works, nothing more, nothing less.

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I guess that's just the difference between you and I. If Hillary had "preached" abstinence, and then Chelsea got pregnant at 18, I would never think of using that for political points, or even for a cheap, immature laugh.
It's not just about a laugh, this is the part you don't get, it's pretty strong "evidence" that it doesn't work and that it's a naive idea.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:17 PM   #505
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I'm telling you how media works, nothing more, nothing less.
And that isn't particularly relevant one way or the other, because we're pointing out hypocrisies and telling you about what we think is right - what should happen, not what actually does.

If you think it's ok for the media to bring politicians' kids into it once they are found 'guilty' in the so-called 'court of public opinion', then fine, but I disagree. I pretty much think politicians' kids should not be brought into it full stop. I disagreed with Bush on most things, but I never saw the relevance of his daughters' enjoying a few beers now and again being brought up for public consumption.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:27 PM   #506
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And that isn't particularly relevant one way or the other, because we're pointing out hypocrisies and telling you about what we think is right - what should happen, not what actually does.
No, you framed it as Letterman and the media only attacks conservative women's families. Go back and read your own posts. I just responded to how YOU framed the question.

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If you think it's ok for the media to bring politicians' kids into it once they are found 'guilty' in the so-called 'court of public opinion', then fine, but I disagree. I pretty much think politicians' kids should not be brought into it full stop. I disagreed with Bush on most things, but I never saw the relevance of his daughters' enjoying a few beers now and again being brought up for public consumption.
In an ideal world, I agree. I never stated that I'm fine with the treatment politician's families get, I just don't fall for the conspiracy theory that it's only one side, and I've shown that.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:30 PM   #507
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Oh please. You have to know they trotted their kids out any time they thought they could get any attention from it. Once Palin did that -- and kept doing it -- of course they were going to get mauled by the political/media machines.
I don't remember too many such instances of using her kids as political commodities. Refresh my memory.

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Don't ever fucking question my decency.
Then I would appreciate you never questioning mine. I expect no future implications that my opposition to Obama has anything to do with race, or that I somehow support racism and slavery because I listen to Rush.

Again, I say there must be something more than just going after her because she "preached" one thing and her child did another. If it was, there would also be a 33-page thread here about the daughter of the current Vice-President of the United States and her cocaine use. Where are all the jokes about that?
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:35 PM   #508
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Again, I say there must be something more than just going after her because she "preached" one thing and her child did another. If it was, there would also be a 33-page thread here about the daughter of the current Vice-President of the United States and her cocaine use. Where are all the jokes about that?
When has Biden used a "Just Say No" teaching as a staple part of his platform? I really don't think you are understanding this point.

If he had and the cocaine use was true, believe me your AM talk guys would have been all over that...
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:42 PM   #509
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When has Biden used a "Just Say No" teaching as a staple part of his platform? I really don't think you are understanding this point.
What am I missing, then? You don't think he's told his kids not to do drugs? But darn it, they went out and did drugs anyways. How is that different from the Palin scenario?

And for Biden's record on drug issues: Joe Biden on Drugs

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If he had and the cocaine use was true, believe me your AM talk guys would have been all over that...
Good Lord, I don't care about the "AM guys!" Were YOU all over it? Were YOU attacking her and her father in the wake of the story and for the following months? No. You weren't.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:53 PM   #510
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What am I missing, then? You don't think he's told his kids not to do drugs? But darn it, they went out and did drugs anyways. How is that different from the Palin scenario?

And for Biden's record on drug issues: Joe Biden on Drugs



Good Lord, I don't care about the "AM guys!" Were YOU all over it? Were YOU attacking her and her father in the wake of the story and for the following months? No. You weren't.
Has the evidence ever surfaced? Forgive me I lost touch after the guy claimed he had video but then never came forth...

That being asked I do see a big difference between preaching abstinence and telling children not to do drugs.
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