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Old 07-11-2009, 08:00 PM   #166
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If you prefer, let's discuss Obama's executive experience then, or maybe that isn't convenient for you guys.
Way to divert from your mistake
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:04 PM   #167
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If you prefer, let's discuss Obama's executive experience then, or maybe that isn't convenient for you guys.
There are pros and cons to gubernatorial vs senatorial experience when running for president. The latter does have more experience in Washington.
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:08 PM   #168
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Way to divert from your mistake
I made no mistake. I'm happy to discuss the matter of why liberals ignore the fact that, last year, Palin was the only POTUS/VP candidate with gubernatorial experience, if you prefer. If you want to have a debate on why liberals ignore this, I'm happy not to divert you from that debate.
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:14 PM   #169
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I made no mistake. I'm happy to discuss the matter of why liberals ignore the fact that, last year, Palin was the only POTUS/VP candidate with gubernatorial experience, if you prefer. If you want to have a debate on why liberals ignore this, I'm happy not to divert you from that debate.
You were comparing the experience of someone who was a governor for 10 years to someone who quit just over halfway into her first term because she couldn't take the heat, and to pretend that that's anywhere close to an even comparison, or that it proves anything is disingenuous at best.

But moving on, so she was the only one of the four candidates with gubernatorial experience - at the time about two years - so what of it? Do you think that made her a superior or even an effective candidate by default? Would you have been comfortable having her in the second highest leadership position in your country? C'mon, be honest here.
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:14 PM   #170
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I made no mistake. I'm happy to discuss the matter of why liberals ignore the fact that, last year, Palin was the only POTUS/VP candidate with gubernatorial experience, if you prefer. If you want to have a debate on why liberals ignore this, I'm happy not to divert you from that debate.
You did. And Vintage did a good job of showing you why.

Your memory is failing you. Republicans were blasting Obama left and right about experience, and then they brought in Palin who no one even knew and she too had very little experience and many had to shut up about the experience issue, some kept on in their hypocrisy, but most shut up about it... Any of this ring a bell?

You try soooo hard to point out hypocrisy that you end up really just shining a light on your weaknesses more often then not.
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:52 PM   #171
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"The media did her in." Her lack of any appropriate modesty did her in. Actually, it's arguable that membership in the self-esteem generation harmed her. For 30 years the self-esteem movement told the young they're perfect in every way.
Meh. I don't find anything distinctly contemporary in what she's calling Palin's "immodesty," which I'd describe more as severe difficulty tolerating criticism (expressed as excessive defensiveness and indignation) amplified by self-aggrandizing tendencies--though the latter's fairly common in politicans, always has been. She doesn't really strike me as "immodest" in the sense of cocky or arrogant, nor as fundamentally afraid to take risks and accept accountability--which if I had to identify anything as quintessential "self-esteem generation" behavior, it'd be that. (I guess in practice, overdefensiveness does amount to an accountability problem...just not the type I'm thinking of, which has more to do with an overreliance on someone always holding your hand through everything.)
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Old 07-11-2009, 09:39 PM   #172
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This is the case 100% of the time though...
Ann amuses me on occasion.

I think she discredits herself by saying a lot of idiotic things, but she's still entertaining.
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Old 07-11-2009, 09:55 PM   #173
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You sound bitter. Does it hurt more when the truth comes from your own side? What specifics did you have issue with?

I actually think this is a good thing. Maybe you need to hear it from your own side so that you can get a feel of why we don't like her. Some of you've been told by Rush and the like that we don't like her because we're scared she's a threat or that we're jealous, and you've bought it hook line and sinker. Well Kathleen didn't see her as a threat, nor was she jealous, she saw her for what she was bad for our country.
You're OBSESSED with Rush. Like, "I get a renob whenever he talks" obsessed.

Either that, or you've been reading Rules for Radicals religiously.

I'll let you know that I am more of a social observer than an ideologue. I think Rush generally does a good job, but is often taken out of context by others obsessed with his influence, like Media Matters. The left will never come to understand that a great deal of his work is satire, and is based on his point that you have to demonstrate absurdity by being absurd. His love affair with himself is also satire. I used to think he was an egomaniac until I understood this to be the case. Needless to say, I don't listen to him as often as you probably suspect. People like Ron Reagan envy his popularity and influence to quite a ridiculous point.

Palin.

She is a threat to the left because she is popular among conservatives. I see the same parallels with her that I saw with Obama. The Obots cheered when Obama sneezed. The P-bots think everything she does is genius. Both of them came out of the woodwork with index card resumes. Both were propped up by powerful people. Both of them have charisma, but a short list of accomplishments.

Again, I'm a social observer. (Although I take it as a compliment when you said that every right-wing blog ought to be using my talking points)

Trust me, I've gotten in a number of heated discussions with P-bots who believe Palin can do no wrong, and insist she did awesome at the VP debate.

I think she used McCain's talking points even though she didn't necessarily agree with them ("predatory lending"... "Wall Street Greed"...etc). Fanatics on either side can't be reasoned with.

She gave Biden a good workout.

I still think she has a lot left to prove, especially given her resignation.

The facts.

Alaska has a population of about 700,000 people.
Their annual budget is about $11 billion.
Under Palin, revenues were about $10 billion a year.
The frivilous lawsuits were costing the state $1.9 million a year.
Palin's personal legal fees cost her about $500,000 of her own money.

I think she was in a dilemma.

Stay in office: Face attacks and false accusations for the sake of saying you have served a full term as governor.

Resign: New opportunities, but denouncement as a "quitter", and hardly a shot in hell of being a 2012 candidate.

I personally think Fred Thompson would have been a better VP pick strategically. He has reached across the aisle to work with budget-conscious Democrats. Unlike McCain, he didn't become the aisle. He would not have allowed McCain to sacrifice his greatest talking point: his experience. Unfortunately, McCain's flip-flops throughout the years made his experience a minus, rather than a plus.
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:24 PM   #174
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Conservatism should be a broad church, I view it as positive that there is a lot more dissent among conservatives now than in the Bush years.
There are many types of conservatives: neoconservatives, paleoconservatives, conservative nationalists, isolationists, anarcho-capitalists, neolibertarians, paleolibertarians...

You can't please everyone, so you might as well stand for what you truly believe in.
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:31 PM   #175
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Ann amuses me on occasion.

I think she discredits herself by saying a lot of idiotic things, but she's still entertaining.
I agree, it seems like she almost doesn't want to be taken seriously sometimes...
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:53 PM   #176
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You're OBSESSED with Rush. Like, "I get a renob whenever he talks" obsessed.
Well, I use "Rush" to kind of encompass all of extreme right wing media. I never really paid much attention to Rush until recently when I met those that actually took him to be a viable news source. I grew up in Texas surrounded by hard core conservatives, but very few Rush listeners. But recently in here and other walks of life I have found those who actually take him seriously, so I started to listen to him. His followers scare me, but they are a minority in conservatives.

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Palin.

She is a threat to the left because she is popular among conservatives. I see the same parallels with her that I saw with Obama. The Obots cheered when Obama sneezed. The P-bots think everything she does is genius. Both of them came out of the woodwork with index card resumes. Both were propped up by powerful people. Both of them have charisma, but a short list of accomplishments.
I was always willing to admit that Obama had a fairly thin resume, but it didn't bother me, experience isn't everything, so it wasn't her lack of experience that bothered me.


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Again, I'm a social observer. (Although I take it as a compliment when you said that every right-wing blog ought to be using my talking points)
Oh no, no, no... I said they should read them, it might make them rethink their stance. I think you have a long way to go on being well equipped to talk about that subject.

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The facts.

Alaska has a population of about 700,000 people.
Their annual budget is about $11 billion.
Under Palin, revenues were about $10 billion a year.
The frivilous lawsuits were costing the state $1.9 million a year.
Palin's personal legal fees cost her about $500,000 of her own money.
Yeah that first one isn't something I think Fguy understood.

And I don't mean to sound like it's easy, but compabably to other states it's fairly easy to make such revenues. I think Palin's lawsuit are for the most part her own doing, part naivety, part non-transparency, and part ignorance. I have a hard time believing 100% innocence if they've gone this far and cost her this much... I think she is either partly in the wrong(or fully though I doubt it) or she's at least scared that maybe she did do something wrong without being fully aware.
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:10 PM   #177
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I think Palin's lawsuit are for the most part her own doing, part naivety, part non-transparency, and part ignorance. I have a hard time believing 100% innocence if they've gone this far and cost her this much...
Wow.

You really do believe that nobody is out to shoot her down.
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:22 PM   #178
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Well, I use "Rush" to kind of encompass all of extreme right wing media.
I think you're mischaracterizing a lot of people with this statement.

I don't think Rush represents anything outside of mainstream conservatism.
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:22 PM   #179
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The ethics complaints against Palin haven't, in fact, gone very far; to date all but 2 have been dismissed as being without merit before making it to the hearing stage.
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:25 PM   #180
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Wow.

You really do believe that nobody is out to shoot her down.
I didn't say that I believe no one is out to "shoot her down" I'm sure there are... But if I'm not mistaken some of these stem from before she was even the VP canidate, and if they have gone this far there is usually enough gray area that she hasn't been able to get dismissed, that is usually a bad sign for these types of lawsuits.
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