Sane Abortion Article To Start Insane Thread - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-05-2007, 06:15 PM   #16
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


It's interesting you bring that up. I once read that someone interviewed Mother Theresa and asked her why she didn't ask God for a cure for AIDS. She said he did and the person who was to come up with it was aborted. I don't know how true that is, but it makes you think. It makes a point.

I know Mother Theresa did say "It's a poverty to decide that a child must die in order that you can live as you wish" regarding abortion . . .
Yes it does, it tells us that she was aroused by human suffering and hardcore Catholic doctrine.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 07:21 PM   #17
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,236
Local Time: 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


It's interesting you bring that up. I once read that someone interviewed Mother Theresa and asked her why she didn't ask God for a cure for AIDS. She said he did and the person who was to come up with it was aborted. I don't know how true that is, but it makes you think. It makes a point.
That she was perverse?
__________________

__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 07:40 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


And that's the value of it. I see what you're saying, and maybe I could've explained it further. Basically, God chose to come to our level by way of human birth, so why should be consider abortion? What if abortion was considered during his time? Do you see what I'm saying (or trying to say)? With abortion, we never know what potential that life would've had and in the case of Christ, it was our savior. So, maybe the value of the womb wasn't necessarily increased, but the potential loss from abortion is increased considering his human birth.

Well, then they would've aborted God; or Jesus, or whoever.

Yes, it's a shame.
We also could put shame on every car driver that accidentally kills a child because that could've grown up a genius, and so on.

And, like pointed out in the article though in another context, we really would have to safe every sperm, because on of those could be the genius sperm.

With AIDS and certain kinds of cancer (the one cancer cure can't be found) I'm pretty content that one day a cure will be found, although one parent might have accidentally chosen to abort their child, for medical conditions or because they felt not read for it, yet, and hence aborted in the first weeks, or for whatever reason.

But we do better not to rule out abortion. The alternative is by far more cruel.
__________________
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 08:05 PM   #19
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 05:29 PM
Religion cannot play a role in law. You can make a pro-life argument about the fetus, yes, but religion cannot be used.

I am personally pro-life, but legally it should be pro-choice, because abortions will happen no matter what, and there needs to be safe ways for it to be done.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 10:33 PM   #20
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 05:29 PM
Quote:
I am personally pro-life, but legally it should be pro-choice, because abortions will happen no matter what, and there needs to be safe ways for it to be done
Ahhh.. this is the argument that really drives me nuts.

Illegal bungie cord jumping off of bridges will happen no matter what too. There needs to be a safe way for that as well.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:24 PM   #21
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 11:29 PM
While I'm not a fan of 'It's horrible people do it, but they will so it should be legal'-type arguments, comparing thrill-seeking behavior like illegal bungee-jumping to the desperation of paying someone of doubtful credentials to scrape out your uterus using God-knows-what in their basement seems extremely callous.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:34 PM   #22
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 05:29 PM
Sorry Yolland. Substitute your poison.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:39 PM   #23
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Ahhh.. this is the argument that really drives me nuts.

Illegal bungie cord jumping off of bridges will happen no matter what too. There needs to be a safe way for that as well.
how does that even make sense?

That analogy is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:42 PM   #24
Vocal parasite
 
Axver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 1853
Posts: 151,021
Local Time: 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest
Yet, I believe every human life from birth to death has a purpose. I often wonder, "What if the person who would've found the cure for AIDS, cancer, etc. was aborted?" "What if Martin Luther King Jr., Gahndi, Mother Theresa, Bono, etc. had been aborted? What if I, my mother, my father, my best friends, any one I know in any way, shape, or form had been aborted?" What would the world be missing out on now and in the future?
I don't get this argument. You can just as easily argue in favour of abortion by asking "what if this person was going to be a murderer, a rapist, or a paedophile? What if Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc. had been aborted?" So I think it's pointless to deal with "what ifs"; it hurts the pro-life case just as much as it helps it.

Personally, I don't have a strong opinion either way. I'm trying to work out exactly where I stand. I don't believe any life that would be viable outside the womb should be aborted, but I'm not exactly knowledgeable about when a life becomes viable (I'd love to know, but I imagine there's extensive debate on the matter). I don't have a problem with terminating a pregnancy when the foetus is completely unviable, like in the first couple of weeks, and in any case where the mother's life is threatened, I wholeheartedly support the right to choose.
__________________
"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

U2gigs: The most comprehensive U2 setlist database!
Gig pictures | Blog
Axver is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:44 PM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,258
Local Time: 04:29 PM
Good points, yolland and Vincent Vega, regarding the "It could've been the next Einstein" arguement.

*Edited 'cause Axver just posted the exact same argument I was making, so I'll just refer you all to what he said*

Anywho, pretty good article there-lots of excellent points made (especially regarding the whole meaning of being "pro-life"). I'm no fan of abortion, either, but just outlawing it is not going to solve things. Instead, we need to start working on taking care of the problems that lead a woman to have to make that decision to begin with.

Here's hoping this thread stays civil .

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:44 PM   #26
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Axver


I don't get this argument. You can just as easily argue in favour of abortion by asking "what if this person was going to be a murderer, a rapist, or a paedophile? What if Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc. had been aborted?" So I think it's pointless to deal with "what ifs"; it hurts the pro-life case just as much as it helps it.

Exactly, it's a worthless argument.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:59 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
It's interesting you bring that up. I once read that someone interviewed Mother Theresa and asked her why she didn't ask God for a cure for AIDS. She said he did and the person who was to come up with it was aborted. I don't know how true that is, but it makes you think. It makes a point.
I think she heard him wrong and what he really said was "I did, but the egg that was going to be the person who found the cure was your's and you selfishly decided not to have any children. So there."

You can twist that argument any way you want, and it's clear she did just that.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:11 AM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega

Well, then they would've aborted God; or Jesus, or whoever.

Yes, it's a shame.
We also could put shame on every car driver that accidentally kills a child because that could've grown up a genius, and so on.

And, like pointed out in the article though in another context, we really would have to safe every sperm, because on of those could be the genius sperm.

With AIDS and certain kinds of cancer (the one cancer cure can't be found) I'm pretty content that one day a cure will be found, although one parent might have accidentally chosen to abort their child, for medical conditions or because they felt not read for it, yet, and hence aborted in the first weeks, or for whatever reason.

But we do better not to rule out abortion. The alternative is by far more cruel.
Yes, but there's a difference between accidentally killing a child and choosing to end a life. That's the argument here.

As far as the whole argument of saving sperm, I have to say that was the author's weakest argument. He's just taking a cheap shot at the other position instead of putting together a rational argument. Nobody's argued we have to save every sperm, the debate is over life beginning at conception or not, or even before the child is born, when is it considered alive. Frankly, the author just makes himself look bad here.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:15 AM   #29
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
By that logic, couples should not only never use birth control, but in fact should attempt to conceive every month when the woman isn't already pregnant, because THIS might be the month when the stars are aligned for YOU to produce the next Einstein, and who are you to deny the world that opportunity just because you can't afford to support another kid right now? It's as if you're saying on the one hand that destiny is written into the genes, but that on the other hand the "right" genes somehow don't exist until an embryo does. But they do, of course; the sperm and egg in question would already have been carrying them. Unless you're assuming that God personally determines which sperm gets to the egg first (and had previously been micromanaging spermatogenesis and ovulation all along to ensure that the Really Good Stuff remained on hold until the stars-aligned moment), I don't see how this line of thinking carries much weight.
It carries plenty of weight. With all due respect, you're using the same faulty logic the author is using about saving sperm. We're talking about a life that's already begun. Not the chance for a life to begin. Two different things there.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 11-06-2007, 01:50 AM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
U2DMfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
Posts: 6,637
Local Time: 04:29 PM
Re: Sane Abortion Article To Start Insane Thread

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
source

About 10% of evangelicals, according to polls, allow for abortion in the case of rape or incest. But the circumstances of conception should not change the nature of the thing conceived. If it is a human person, killing it is punishing it for something it had nothing to do with.
This is what I've never understood.

If I'm a hardcore pro-lifer, then I'm going to be against all abortions that aren't about saving the mother's life. If you don't want a baby, it shouldn't matter the reason you don't want it. What does this kind of stance say about a person?

"I believe in a culture of life, where all life is valued, even stem cells etc. but I don't want to raise someone elses baby so lets go ahead and kill it."

A non-sensical position, if you ask me.
FYI, I believe John McCain and Mitt Romney support this line of thinking.
__________________

__________________
U2DMfan is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com