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Old 02-01-2014, 03:54 PM   #931
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It is.

And they hate in the name of the One who Loves.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:05 PM   #932
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i don't think marriage inequality is apartheid, nor do i think it's Jim Crow. these are different things.

but i do think the violence LGBT people have suffered historically, and today, is absolutely on par with any group's collective suffering.

take Russia:

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Ever since virulently homophobic Russian President Vladimir Putin pushed through a law effectively outlawing openly gay people, the country’s LGBTQ community has, predictably, been plagued by violence. Now a study published in Harvard University’s Health and Human Rights journal confirms what myriad horrific anecdotes suggest: Gay people in Russia are being beaten, raped, and murdered at record rates—and the government is doing little to stop it.

The issue of violence against gays in Russia is, of course, nothing new. Before the passage of the new federal measure, several regional governments passed identical laws, stripping gay citizens of legal rights and human dignity. More than one-half of Russian gays reported psychological abuse, while 16 percent experienced physical assault, and 7 percent were raped. Yet 77 percent also reported complete distrust of the police, leaving most anti-gay crimes unreported.

Putin’s law has only darkened this already bleak picture. By putting the government’s stamp of approval on rampant Russian homophobia, Putin effectively declared open season on gay people. As the Harvard study notes, violence against gays in Russia isn’t considered violence at all; rather, it’s thought of as a way for young males to prove their own heterosexuality—while simultaneously cleansing society of an aberrant, pedophilic community.

That’s the motivation behind groups like Occupy Pedophilia, which lure in gay teens through social media in order to publicly humiliate them by beating them with sex toys or forcing them to drink urine. The guerrilla group claims that its ultimate goal is to “cure” gay people of their orientation—echoing the Russian health minister’s statement that homosexuality is often a mental illness. Concerned by the violence, one Russian citizen sent 70 appeals to law enforcement agencies, asking them to investigate the attacks. Every request was refused.


Maxim Martsinkevich, the leader of Occupy Pedophilia, was recently arrested in Cuba and will soon face trial in Russia, though none of the charges against him stem from his gay-bashing. (Given that Martsinkevich was a proud neo-Nazi, his rap sheet is predictably extensive.) But his arrest will likely do little to stop the vicious zeal with which Occupy Pedophilia and likeminded groups are shaming, beating, and sexually assaulting gay Russians. In fact, much anti-gay violence comes from law enforcement officers themselves, who have brutally suppressed any public showing of gay tolerance. (That’s the law, after all.)

Putin didn’t introduce homophobia to Russia. But his crusade against the gay community has direly exacerbated the country’s already suffocating haze of anti-gay bigotry and ignorance. A strong and confident leader could have helped the country move beyond its antediluvian conceptions of sexuality and gender. Instead, the paranoid Putin has used gays as a common enemy and a scapegoat. He might have scored political points with this stunt, both in his own country and in the West. But the toll of his intolerance is currently being paid in human lives.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:03 PM   #933
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The case of Russia blows my mind. Not that Russia is by any means "Western," but I can think of a handful of non-Western countries that outlaw homosexuality and are far less advanced in time, if you will, that hold a much higher standard for human rights.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:42 AM   #934
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Scotland has joined the list of countries to burn in hell for all eternity.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:20 AM   #935
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Heard that on the radio this morning, and by an overwhelming majority too! 100 something vs 18 against.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:47 AM   #936
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that's the sound of the world spinning forward ...

i am very, very curious as to what the Putin Olympics will have in store.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:59 PM   #937
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that's the sound of the world spinning forward ...

i am very, very curious as to what the Putin Olympics will have in store.
Besides discolored water and unfinished buildings?
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:51 PM   #938
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It's Russia, fer chrissakes. People didn't expect that?
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:24 PM   #939
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What makes you come to this conclusion? Honestly curious there.

I think you're mixing up two things though. There's a difference between sexuality and acting upon it. As you say, someone chooses to be celibate, does that mean they are not gay or straight? No, they still have a sexual preference, they just choose not to act upon it.
Sexuality isn't a choice. Acting upon your sexuality is.
I've recently changed my mind on the topic having believed orientation was largely determined at birth for the last 10 years. And I don't rule it out either, but I need some real scientific, empirical proof. None currently exists. But frankly I don't see how it matters. Whether or not one is "born gay" has no significance either way on the SSM argument for me.
The hysterical and violent reaction to the Mark Regnerus study showed just how politicized the social science on homosexuality and same-sex parenting has become. It's one-sided. Like global-warming. It's largely agenda-driven science with an outcome looking for verification.
I would never argue with someone about it however. If Irvine says he has been attracted to males his entire life and feels he was born homosexual I have no reason to doubt him.

You doubt that science can be bastardized by politics?

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/02/...king/parenents
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Study: Third-Hand Smoke Exposure As Deadly As Smoking

Riverside, Calif. (CBS ATLANTA) – Exposure to surfaces and objects that have been saturated in cigarette smoke, labeled as “third-hand smoke,” may be as deadly as smoking the cigarette itself.
Idiotic but it will be used by zealots.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:02 PM   #940
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Haha, you think people object to Regnerus because of politics?
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:16 PM   #941
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The Regnerus study is ghastly social science. This really isn't a debatable point. It simply is.

I agree with INDY -- gay at birth doesn't matter, it's immaterial. What's important, and it seems he agrees, is that sexual orientation is entirely unchosen, and it can't be changed in any sort of meaningful way. So the "born gay/show me the gene" misses the point -- as INDY says, it doesn't matter
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:30 PM   #942
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I've recently changed my mind on the topic having believed orientation was largely determined at birth for the last 10 years. And I don't rule it out either, but I need some real scientific, empirical proof. None currently exists. But frankly I don't see how it matters. Whether or not one is "born gay" has no significance either way on the SSM argument for me.
The hysterical and violent reaction to the Mark Regnerus study showed just how politicized the social science on homosexuality and same-sex parenting has become. It's one-sided. Like global-warming. It's largely agenda-driven science with an outcome looking for verification.
I would never argue with someone about it however. If Irvine says he has been attracted to males his entire life and feels he was born homosexual I have no reason to doubt him.

You doubt that science can be bastardized by politics?

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/02/...king/parenents


Idiotic but it will be used by zealots.
I don't doubt that science can be influenced by politics, sure, scientist can only cover topics they get funding for... but largely this does not affect the big picture. Because the way scientist work, with peer reviews and everything. You can't just put out bogus facts that aren't backed by someone else these days, it won't work, you'd be a fraud and laughing stock of the Scientific community.

And that's a worldwide community.

I am glad you are changing your mind.

And for proof? Well, I can tell you from personal experience that I've always been this way. Sure, I started out thinking I was straight, because as a kid you don't get exposed much to the other possibilities. Had I been, I might've known sooner that I didn't have a clear preference. All I know is that all my teenage life I felt like there was something missing, and I found that when I met my first girlfriend. It changed my world, I finally started realising who I was and felt much more comfortable in my own skin.

None of this has anything to do with politics. Nothing of this has anything to do with being indoctrinated by anyone or anything. All it was about was living in an open minded country where I could discover who I was in my own pace. And where I'm not judged for the ones I love. The general consensus of my friends was that they more or less figured already. Nobody's judging, nothing has changed.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:35 PM   #943
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It's one-sided. Like global-warming. It's largely agenda-driven science with an outcome looking for verification.


You doubt that science can be bastardized by politics?

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/02/...king/parenents
As someone who studies planetary atmospheres, it is kind of insulting that you'd call it an "agenda-driven science."

Global warming is not a myth. Global warming is not exaggerated. Global warming is observable through laws of physics as an energy budget on Earth. Yes, it is absolutely a political tool but the science behind it is 100% real, and much like a gay individual and the origin in time of their sexuality, a scientist has no reason to lie about their conducted research. And please do not equate a soft science to a hard science.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:12 PM   #944
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All I know is that all my teenage life I felt like there was something missing, and I found that when I met my first girlfriend. It changed my world, I finally started realising who I was and felt much more comfortable in my own skin.


this exactly.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:20 AM   #945
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If anything, I'd say the love I've shared with women was more special than with men. There's just some kind of deeper understanding between two people of the same sex, the relationships were a lot easier I guess. More intense as well.


Did anyone catch the opening Ceremony of the olympic games? I had to laugh out loud when Germany came up. Awesome outfits!
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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