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Old 01-31-2014, 07:14 PM   #916
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How charitable of you.

Regarding your request, I fail to see the point in it since same sex marriage is in no way analogous to affirmative action. And w/r/t the 14th amendment, I'm sure the core issue you're arguing is this:



The only way I can see same sex marriage coming into conflict with this is if one believes that homosexuality is a choice instead of an innate characteristic of one's being. Because if you agree that homosexuality is just as innate to a gay man as heterosexuality is to a straight man, then I fail to see how "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" is anything but an argument in favor of same sex marriage, not against.

And if you think homosexuality is a choice, well...
Well what? I might be in agreement with Camille Paglia. Obviously individuals are born with traits but sexuality like any action is always a choice. One chooses to be celibate or promiscuous for example. In addition, there are environmental, family and sexual abuse issues. Homosexuality is part of the human condition but no, I don't feel one is born gay which is not to say that there are not men who find, for example, the thought of sex with women repulsive.
Many lesbians have long insisted that their homosexuality was an expression of feminist empowerment. Which explains the many examples of ex-lesbians.

It's also not to say that it's not a very complicated issue as simple as "praying away the gay" or however I imagine some of you will twist my social heresy.

By the way, Ms Paglia (an atheist and certainly no conservative) also called out the fascist nature of gay activists ie. Duck Dynasty and as Irvine will surely tell us she is hated by them for straying from the accepted orthodoxy.

I gave you an honest answer now it's Indy's turn to ask a tough question.

The current activist dogma states that sexual orientation is innate while one's sex is subjective and malleable.
Do you believe that?
How many, to use the current accepted language, genders are there Diemen?
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:27 PM   #917
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"I don't feel one is born gay"

Case closed, people. Can't argue with that..!
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:31 PM   #918
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i don't live in Virginia. i live in DC. i used to live in Virginia. and before that DC. one of the reasons we left Virginia was because of that awful 2006 law.

yes, i think he still would have won. in fact, he might have won by more because VA is such a strange state. the northern suburbs are modern, educated, wealthy, and therefore quite blue. however, state races often make little sense to them -- what goes on in Richmond seems a million miles away from the diverse dynamism of the Dulles corridor or Arlington and Alexandria. a lot of people living in those states are from elsewhere, so when they hear about the craziness that goes on in Richmond -- forcing women to have a transvaginal ultrasound? wtf? -- they can't relate, and are more likely not to vote in off-year elections, but they do turn out in presidential races when national issues are on the ticket. this is why Obama won VA twice, why the Senators are D's, and why the state will be blue for the foreseeable future. had this been an issue in the 2013 campaign, it might have actually motivated more in the blue DC-suburbs to get out and vote since this is now an issue that moves the D base.

i'd also argue that Cuccinelli's rather shocking anti-gay record worked against him in VA. it shouldn't have been hard to beat a loser like McAuliffe in a purple state, but Cuccinelli was a special breed of crazy.

i am proud of our new attorney general. he realized that the 2006 law -- one of the worst in the country -- was unconstitutional, especially in light of the DOMA ruling. how can he, as the AG, enforce a law that is unconstitutional? you're constantly deifying the Constitution as if it were written by the hand of God himself, who is he to deny the protections of the 14th Amendment to the citizens of Virginia? there is precedent for an AG to do such a thing.

further, have you seen the polls on this issue? a majority of Virginians support SSM, and it's adoption will make VA more competitive, especially since DC and MD have SSM.

i know very well two women with two adopted children who are waiting with baited breath to see if they'll be allowed to be married. i hope it will happen soon.
I'm sure your analysis is mostly correct but it doesn't hurt that Northern Virginia has several of the nation's wealthiest counties largely immune from the recession because of the explosion in federal spending. Kinda makes for a natural breeding ground for Democrats doesn't it?

But we can't talk about the income inequality between counties that surround Washington D.C and the rest of the country can we?
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:33 PM   #919
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Setting how you "feel" aside -- since your opinion is more important than the lives of millions of gay people, many of whom have been violently killed because they are gay -- what observations have led you to the conclusion that no one is born gay and this there is a choice that is made?

I agree that actual sex of any kind involves a choice, but that confuses action with orientation.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:36 PM   #920
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In Stephen Fry's Out There doco, I'm pretty sure he said he has never had anal sex. He was arguing with a Ugandan pastor, saying that he just is gay, and that it's about love, not "sodomy".
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:36 PM   #921
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I'm sure your analysis is mostly correct but it doesn't hurt that Northern Virginia has several of the nation's wealthiest counties largely immune from the recession because of the explosion in federal spending. Kinda makes for a natural breeding ground for Democrats doesn't it?



But we can't talk about the income inequality between counties that surround Washington D.C and the rest of the country can we?


The explosion in federal spending happened under Bush, not Obama.

Many of these counties are so wealthy not because of the federal goveremt but because of Mark Warner and Tim Kaine and the diversification of the economy. Also, places like Loudon County are wealthy not because they're home to millionaires-via-fed bit because they were once farmland and a bunch of shitty quick housing was thrown up to accommodate the exploding population. There are no poor people in these places, just a lot of people making between $80-150k. The lack of income diversity skews them high.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:39 PM   #922
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The explosion in federal spending happened under Bush, not Obama.
Both actually.

Super Bowl weekend starts right now, talk amongst yourselves.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:24 AM   #923
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I believe I answered too
Sorry.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:54 AM   #924
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Well what? I might be in agreement with Camille Paglia. Obviously individuals are born with traits but sexuality like any action is always a choice. One chooses to be celibate or promiscuous for example. In addition, there are environmental, family and sexual abuse issues. Homosexuality is part of the human condition but no, I don't feel one is born gay which is not to say that there are not men who find, for example, the thought of sex with women repulsive

What makes you come to this conclusion? Honestly curious there.

I think you're mixing up two things though. There's a difference between sexuality and acting upon it. As you say, someone chooses to be celibate, does that mean they are not gay or straight? No, they still have a sexual preference, they just choose not to act upon it.
Sexuality isn't a choice. Acting upon your sexuality is.
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Old 02-01-2014, 07:10 AM   #925
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The current activist dogma states that sexual orientation is innate while one's sex is subjective and malleable.
Do you believe that?
How many, to use the current accepted language, genders are there Diemen?
Well first we don't think sex is subjective. Sex is you are biologically male, female, or intersex. Gender is the cultural expectations or role you are assigned, usually male or female. But since that is all cultural stuff that is malleable. To be honest there can probably be as many genders as there are people if everyone wanted to. But don't worry your cotton socks we aren't all going to become genderqueer femmes.
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:25 AM   #926
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Well what? I might be in agreement with Camille Paglia. Obviously individuals are born with traits but sexuality like any action is always a choice. One chooses to be celibate or promiscuous for example. In addition, there are environmental, family and sexual abuse issues. Homosexuality is part of the human condition but no, I don't feel one is born gay which is not to say that there are not men who find, for example, the thought of sex with women repulsive.
Many lesbians have long insisted that their homosexuality was an expression of feminist empowerment. Which explains the many examples of ex-lesbians.

what about love?

it seems it's only about fucking with the anti-SSM folks.

does it ever cross the anti-gay mind that not only are gay people sexually attracted to the same gender when you are gay but, more importantly, you are emotionally attracted to the same gender? that these are the people you can only honestly fall in love with? that it's not so much about finding women repulsive but about finding men physically and emotionally fulfilling in a way that no woman could ever be?
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:49 AM   #927
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Well what? I might be in agreement with Camille Paglia. Obviously individuals are born with traits but sexuality like any action is always a choice. One chooses to be celibate or promiscuous for example. In addition, there are environmental, family and sexual abuse issues. Homosexuality is part of the human condition but no, I don't feel one is born gay which is not to say that there are not men who find, for example, the thought of sex with women repulsive.
Many lesbians have long insisted that their homosexuality was an expression of feminist empowerment. Which explains the many examples of ex-lesbians.

It's also not to say that it's not a very complicated issue as simple as "praying away the gay" or however I imagine some of you will twist my social heresy.

By the way, Ms Paglia (an atheist and certainly no conservative) also called out the fascist nature of gay activists ie. Duck Dynasty and as Irvine will surely tell us she is hated by them for straying from the accepted orthodoxy.
Firstly, even though Camille Paglia speaks out against homosexuality, she's been a lesbian for decades, so she's largely contradicting herself.

As for homosexuals who are that way because of abuse, who can blame them for not wanting to be with the opposite sex after all the hell they've been through? If my father, uncle, stepbrother, whoever sexually abused me for years as a child, I sure as hell would want nothing to do with men.

Does that still mean I would deserve fewer human rights than you? And not be able to marry who I loved?

Anyone who isn't born gay and acts on it is a minority in the LGBT community. Plus, there have been plenty of studies to show being gay is innate from birth.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:20 PM   #928
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there's ample evidence that sexuality seems to be more fluid in females then in males, and simply because a woman is with a woman and then a man doesn't mean that she's an "ex-lesbian," it means that she's bisexual.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:13 PM   #929
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I still can't believe there has to be all this discussion of sexuality just to let two guys who love each other get hitched. No one asked me whether my heterosexuality was a choice when I married my sweetheart. No one ever asked about our sex life. Did anyone ask straight couples whether being a Jew or a Catholic was a choice, because what about the children? Who gives a rat's ass what Camile Paglia thinks about gay activists? What does that have to do with two lesbians who've been together for 10 years getting married? It's a done deal; it's happening. No one's getting hurt. If the guy doesn't want to bake a goddamn cake for a couple, then get out of the business of cake-baking. No "Christian" organization would touch that clown if he'd declined to bake a cake for a Jew marrying a Catholic. Jesus, it's not that hard. There's actually no slippery slope; there have been no dire consequences. Gay people get married, the world turns.


/rant
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:29 PM   #930
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I just thought of something...


Being gay is not a choice. But a religion is. So while we are born this way, others choose to hate us for who we are... while they gain absolutely nothing with all their hate. Damn, that's pretty messed up.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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