Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III - Page 49 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-08-2014, 08:31 PM   #721
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Originally Posted by LJT View Post
The transgender complaint is a bit off too. As far as I am aware female loos tend to be all cubicles and of those transgender people I know they are not exactly going to wander through a locker room naked but remain behind a curtain or a cubicle, unless you equate transgender people with sexual predators sneaking into toilets. Though at least in the UK, they are more likely to be the victim of a sexual assault than the rest of the general population.

How meaningful is your sex to anything, other than reproduction? Gender is different to your biological sex and the purpose of us on the left is not that it is meaningless or inconsequential, why else would transgender people get so rightfully upset at people treating them like shit for feeling like a different gender to their sex? Gender remains an important part of our identities hence the offence at those that belittle it.

Anyway as others have said this is bugger all to do with SSM and gender.


i want to say that i really appreciate this post.

there's little question that Trans people are, perhaps, the social group most likely to experience violence. sometimes at rates double that of even gays and lesbians.

and then we have conservatives, like the ones that INDY is echoing, who turn around and pretend that they are monsters, freaks, and threats to children. even trans children are threats to children.

dear god, you'd think a modicum of compassion is in order. it's incredibly sad. instead, we hear people using SSM not only to call children freaks, but to blame gay people for subjecting children to threats by these so-called freaks.

but, as has been stated, none of this has anything to do with SSM.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:33 PM   #722
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This is part of what Irvine511 posted of the judge's ruling:
"Respondents have no free speech right to refuse because they were only asked to bake a cake, not make a speech."

I think the judge is wrong.

Is art considered free speech?

I have heard freedom of speech related to free expression of art all my life. All of us here have.

Indy500 posted that Mr. Phillips, the baker was ready to bake the couple cakes, muffins, cookies, or whatever.

It was when they specified what the cake was for and they wanted the plastic figures on top of the cake to be the same gender, that is when Phillips kindly told them that because of religious convictions he could not bake the cake.

Masterpiece Cakeshop is the name of his bakery and he has always considered his creations works of art. I think all of us here have also heard decorated edible food as works of art.

The couple instead of simply going up the street to another bakery(there are dozens in the city) were in a lawyer's office within an hour.



could he have cited his "religious convictions" and refused to bake a cake at an interracial wedding?
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:57 PM   #723
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could he have cited his "religious convictions" and refused to bake a cake at an interracial wedding?
I don't believe he could and from what I've read on Mr. Phillips, I don't think he would. I'll try to google it and see if I can find any examples.

Phillips views his works as art (an expression of speech) and he does not want to expresses something that goes against his convictions. That I think, makes this different from using interracial marriage as an objection.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:57 PM   #724
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What?
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:03 PM   #725
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Why am I not surprised that INDY is a transphobe?
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:12 PM   #726
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I stand by my statement. I meant that the traditional view of marriage as being between persons of the opposite sex has been a long held understanding
throughout history.

I replied to your question.

Now could you reply to my question about art being a free expression of art and your thought on edible creative foods being an expression of art?

Thank you
Well now you're changing your story. Your statement was incorrect. Period.

As an artist could a klansman claim religious belief and refuse his services to Jews and black people?

Hell why can't we just claim religious beliefs to refuse service against anyone we don't like? You come in and want your car serviced because you broke down, but I consider my auto work as art, and my religion says science deniers are sinful, I should be able to deny you and keep you stranded, right?
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:30 PM   #727
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Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III

Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
I don't believe he could and from what I've read on Mr. Phillips, I don't think he would. I'll try to google it and see if I can find any examples.



Phillips views his works as art (an expression of speech) and he does not want to expresses something that goes against his convictions. That I think, makes this different from using interracial marriage as an objection.


You're right. Legally can't. And he can't for the same reason he can't oppose a SSM -- it's a violation of Colorado law. You won't find examples either -- we can't refuse to sell products to people because of their race.

I was asking you to imagine that he has a religious objection to interracial marriage. The "work of art" applies in this situation, and the question remains: do you think a religious objection is sufficient grounds to deny a cake from an interracial couple. Perhaps the baker might love them individually, he's not a racist, he'd bake a cake for a birthday, but he simply opposes interracial marriage because of religion and because he thinks that life is difficult for mixed race children.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:35 PM   #728
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Well now you're changing your story. Your statement was incorrect. Period.

As an artist could a klansman claim religious belief and refuse his services to Jews and black people?

Hell why can't we just claim religious beliefs to refuse service against anyone we don't like? You come in and want your car serviced because you broke down, but I consider my auto work as art, and my religion says science deniers are sinful, I should be able to deny you and keep you stranded, right?

Please post the part I changed. Quote me.

The artistic klansman? Please post a real case.

And your artistic car garage...I guess I would be left stranded.

But no worries...I wouldn't sue.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:18 PM   #729
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Please post the part I changed. Quote me.

The artistic klansman? Please post a real case.

And your artistic car garage...I guess I would be left stranded.

But no worries...I wouldn't sue.
You said it's never been changed, you didn't put qualifiers. Don't play dumb, any thinking man knows that the definition of modern day marriage is far different from the arranged polygamy marriages of the Bible.

Oh now all of a sudden you want real cases? You and Indy's doomsday reasoning is based entirely on make believe bullshit. Play by your own rules.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:50 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
I don't believe he could and from what I've read on Mr. Phillips, I don't think he would. I'll try to google it and see if I can find any examples.

Phillips views his works as art (an expression of speech) and he does not want to expresses something that goes against his convictions. That I think, makes this different from using interracial marriage as an objection.
Imagine if phillips was a fervent racist. Would his work and the expression of 'art' as you call it, still count higher if he refused to bake a cake for a black couple's wedding?
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:16 PM   #731
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Why am I not surprised that INDY is a transphobe?
Why am I not surprised a word like "transphobe" now exists in the lexicon of the Left.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:21 PM   #732
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?????
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:33 PM   #733
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Why am I not surprised a word like "transphobe" now exists in the lexicon of the Left.

it's just a word.

why am i not surprised that ignorance is celebrated on the Palin right?
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:42 PM   #734
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How is that the same thing? Nazism is a choice. Homosexuality is not. Jesus Christ.
Know what else is a choice? Not being tolerant of the long-held traditional religious beliefs of others. Or is tolerance a one-way street?
Know what else is a choice? Taking a small business to court when multiple alternate venues are willing to provide the same service.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:49 PM   #735
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'Now exists'?



Yes, it's totally a big joke. Transgender people have such easy lives. Ha ha ha.
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