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Old 06-29-2013, 01:10 PM   #346
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It's illegal to refuse your services to people on the basis of skin color or religion. Why should sexual orientation be any different.
This a million times. It is so obvious a point that honestly I cannot believe there is even a question about it.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:14 PM   #347
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INDY, AEON: I invite you to come and visit Canada, where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2005. The moral fabric has not collapsed, in fact it is a complete non-issue.
Well, as it happens I was on the Canadian side of Niagra Falls for a week earlier this month. Couldn't have had a better time but the price of food... jeez. With the $10 hamburgers and $17 glasses of wine I fugure we must have paid for the healthcare of at least one Canadian for 2013.

But I'd also like to praise your country for this:

‘Hate speech’ no longer part of Canada’s Human Rights Act | Canadian Politics | Canada | News | National Post

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Hate speech no longer part of Canada’s Human Rights Act

A contentious section of Canadian human rights law, long criticized by free-speech advocates as overly restrictive and tantamount to censorship, is gone for good.

A private member’s bill repealing Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act, the so-called “hate speech provision,” passed in the Senate this week. Its passage means the part of Canadian human rights law that permitted rights complaints to the federal Human Rights Commission for “the communication of hate messages by telephone or on the Internet” will soon be history.

“(Section 13) had actually stopped being used as a shield, as I think it was intended, to protect civil liberties, and started being used as a sword against Canadians, and it’s because it was a poorly-written piece of legislation in the first place,” said conservative MP Brian Storseth .

Various human rights lawyers and groups such as the Canadian Bar Association say Section 13 is an important tool in helping to curb hate speech, and that removing it would lead to the proliferation of such speech on the Internet.
Pretty sure I remember Anitram defending this law.

Unfortunately in this country "various human rights lawyers," gay-rights zealots and others in the media and politics will be sharpening their censorship swords.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:32 PM   #348
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and the fact that by the time you reach old age, this will be an issue for almost nobody.

It just doesn't matter anymore.
Most likely because, if current trends continue, "almost nobody" will be marrying. A trend started well before SSM to be sure but only exacerbated by this ruluing IMO.

But to my main point. A marriage law can't be constructed devoid of definitions or standards can it?

So who’s up to the task in your opinion because Justice Kennedy and the 4 liberals think Congress and the president aren't so they threw out their definition of marriage and Prop 8 is gone because We The People of California cannot be trusted either. Just the courts should make these decisions for us you see.

Is that the opinion of FYM as well?
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:45 PM   #349
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The courts are designed to protect the civil rights of a minority, even if the majority votes to take those rights away.

We are all equal under the law, INDY, and even in the eyes of god, no matter how much this upsets you.

Off to the dustbin of history with you.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:52 PM   #350
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Most likely because, if current trends continue, "almost nobody" will be marrying.
True.

For example, a gay couple who will be attending my wedding in August is now going ahead with their own wedding, in the US, in September.

This has upset me and my heterosexual fiance so much and has cheapened our own union to such a degree that we have no choice but cancel our own wedding. What's the point anymore?
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:54 PM   #351
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Pretty sure I remember Anitram defending this law.
Two things.

First, pretty sure I neither defended nor praised this law, but explained to you that our constitutional law operates in a different manner than yours and that therefore it was permissible to have this law as under s.1 of our Charter, you could justify the curtailment of rights.

Second, you are quoting a Conservative Senator's opinion on the law and taking that as fact. It's as if I quoted a Republican on why it's necessary to have mandatory ultrasounds for women and then state that as a fact.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:54 PM   #352
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People who wait to get married -- until they are ilder, more financially secure, have player the field, are established in their careers, and likely have lived together -- are much more likely to stay together for life.

They also tend to live in blue states.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #353
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Open question:

What now is the definition of marriage for federal purposes?

How many of you know that besides SSM couples, "Under provisions of the Internal Revenue Code, a person who is legally separated from his spouse, but not yet divorced, is treated as unmarried, as is a person whose spouse is a nonresident alien. Likewise, under the immigration laws, a marriage entered into for the purpose of gaining an immigrant's admission will be disregarded even though that marriage remains valid under state law."
--Ethics and Public Policy Center

Is “injury and indignity” brought on those couple also as Justice Kennedy said about SSM couple? If we withhold federal benefits from polygamists immigrating to America and legally married in other counties is that solely a “bare congressional desire to harm a politically unpopular group”?
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #354
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People who wait to get married -- until they are ilder, more financially secure, have player the field, are established in their careers, and likely have lived together -- are much more likely to stay together for life.

They also tend to live in blue states.
This is a really good point. The religious right has really perverted statistics of divorce to suggest that individuals who live together before marriage have higher probability of divorce. When you unpack the data, the following is actually true:

1. The lowest rate of divorce is seen among couples who lived together, but only lived with each other and no other partners before marrying.
2. The highest rate of divorce is with "repeat offenders" who lived together with multiple partners before marrying.
3. The individuals who are religious and do not believe in living together before marriage bias the data because they are also least likely to believe in divorce, which is to say nothing of the quality of marriage that they may have.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:04 PM   #355
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Open question:

What now is the definition of marriage for federal purposes?

How many of you know that besides SSM couples, "Under provisions of the Internal Revenue Code, a person who is legally separated from his spouse, but not yet divorced, is treated as unmarried, as is a person whose spouse is a nonresident alien. Likewise, under the immigration laws, a marriage entered into for the purpose of gaining an immigrant's admission will be disregarded even though that marriage remains valid under state law."
--Ethics and Public Policy Center

Is “injury and indignity” brought on those couple also as Justice Kennedy said about SSM couple? If we withhold federal benefits from polygamists immigrating to America and legally married in other counties is that solely a “bare congressional desire to harm a politically unpopular group”?

Polygamy is against the law (religious freedom be damned!). Being gay isn't.

Next?
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:05 PM   #356
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The courts are designed to protect the civil rights of a minority, even if the majority votes to take those rights away.
And every desire, want or petition can be couched as “a right” correct?

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We are all equal under the law, INDY, and even in the eyes of god, no matter how much this upsets you.
And where was "equal protection" for the citizens of CA in front of the Supreme Court. They had no standing and CA officials refused to defend their own constitution. But you got what you wanted so let's not think about such things.
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Off to the dustbin of history with you.
Thank you but I have other arrangements for my final destination.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:07 PM   #357
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The civil rights movement -- indeed, the end of slavary itself -- showed marriage to be a right.

Don't denigrate me. My reasons for getting married are likely no different from your own. How would you feel if you were denied them?
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:07 PM   #358
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How many of you know that besides SSM couples, "Under provisions of the Internal Revenue Code, a person who is legally separated from his spouse, but not yet divorced, is treated as unmarried, as is a person whose spouse is a nonresident alien. Likewise, under the immigration laws, a marriage entered into for the purpose of gaining an immigrant's admission will be disregarded even though that marriage remains valid under state law."
--Ethics and Public Policy Center
There are RATIONAL reasons for why this is the case in each of the above examples.

None exist in SSM. No, religious reasoning and concern trolling about falling rates of marriage (which were falling long before those gays decided they wanted equal rights), polygamy, marrying goats, etc. are not rational reasons.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:13 PM   #359
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Polygamy is against the law (religious freedom be damned!). Being gay isn't.

Next?
Being gay is against the law in most countries that also allow polygamy.

But are you implying that heterosexual and homosexual monogamous marriages are superior to polygamous marriages?
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:16 PM   #360
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Being gay is against the law in most countries that also allow polygamy.
So?

Are you modeling yourself after Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia now?
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