Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III - Page 23 - U2 Feedback

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Old 06-29-2013, 12:38 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Quoting Scalia again in his brilliant dissent:
Ahahahahahaha.

Scalia's position seems to be that the people should vote on everything and the Supreme Court should do nothing ... when he's dissenting. And if you take that position, you better vote against everything, otherwise you're just a hypocrite.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:48 AM   #332
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Scalia's dissent was horseshit.

Everyone agrees on this. It's already been eviscerated, and not just in this case but in Lawrence v Texas as well.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:52 AM   #333
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But why try and win a debate when it's so much easier to just ban any debate.

We've won the debate. To claim there hasn't been a debate is flat out wrong.

Have you read the transcripts from the Prop 8 trial? That was a debate. An incredibly lopsided debate where Olsen/Boies obliterated their feeble opposition, one that couldn't even find a single witness to testify that gay couples marrying would create any sort of harm. Not. A. Single. Witness.

You have had your day in court. And more. And neither the GOPnnor Maggie Gallagher nor the Mormon Church could offer anything other than animus.

But continue to ignore me.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:56 AM   #334
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First of all:

1) Racists
2) Anti-semites
3) Islamic jihadists
4) Focus on the Family

What ever happened to liberal nuance?

Second, your attitude doesn't bode well at all for a great many things.

1) It doesn't bode well for the First Amendment protection of Free Speech. Can we assume the days of a Fortune 500 company president questioning gay marriage i.e. Chick-fil-a, are now over? That no school board will be allowed to remove materials referencing SSM without sanction from state or federal education authorities? Will churches that teach that homosexuality is wrong lose their tax-exempt status? How soon can we expect new hate-speech laws?
2) It doesn't bode well for the First Amendment protect of the free exercise of religion. Will a small bakery that refuses to cater a same-sex wedding or a bed & breakfast refusing accommodations on religious grounds be allowed to do so without lawsuits, demonstrations or worse?
3) It doesn't bode well for the first Amendment freedom of assembly. Can we assume that soon membership in any private organization that does not recognize SSM will be akin to membership in the Ku Klux Klan? That charities failing to "evolve" on the issues risk losing their charitable status?


Oh, how awful. It seems that life for people who dont like SSM might become slightly less comfortable when SSM is legal in all 50 states.

How awful. So many terrible things could happen. Keep listing them.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:14 AM   #335
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It's important to distinguish between an ideology being a punching bag and people being punching bags. I have a distaste for religion in general. I like Christian people in general.
I wasn't thinking of your recent tirades against religion when I made that statement. My statement covers about 7, 8, 9 years of "acceptable target" hypocrisy from the 'tolerant' Left of FYM. And it's not just Christians and it's not just regarding Christians and homosexuality.

In fact, your religion thread (and some of the reaction to it) where you had a nice go at Islam is a PERFECT illustration of what I really mean. You were picking on a target that wasn't acceptable. You should have gone after Christians. Then it would have been very popular. THIS is all I'm saying.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:27 AM   #336
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The fact that there are many Americans who don't support SSM, despite that it will be increasingly legal in the future, is still an issue here - especially with business owners. There have already been cases where people who have beachfront property, own party halls and even wedding cake businesses, have refused same-sex couples who wanted to use their business for their weddings. This is leading, and will continue to lead to lawsuits. Obviously if you don't support SSM, well, don't have one. But if you run a wedding-oriented business, that's where the problems arise.

I'm curious as to what legally can be done about this issue. Also, can FYMers in other countries - Canada, the Netherlands, etc. - tell how this problem is resolved in their countries?
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:39 AM   #337
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It's illegal to refuse your services to people on the basis of skin color or religion. Why should sexual orientation be any different.

That said, I'd rather not give such people my business rather than sue them to make a point.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:38 AM   #338
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INDY, AEON: I invite you to come and visit Canada, where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2005. The moral fabric has not collapsed, in fact it is a complete non-issue.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:01 PM   #339
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INDY, AEON: I invite you to come and visit Canada, where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2005. The moral fabric has not collapsed, in fact it is a complete non-issue.
And Massaschusetts, which has has SSM since 2003, remains the state with the lowest divorce rate, best schools, etc.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:03 PM   #340
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That approach won't work with INDY as I've tried it several times and he counters with stories from right-wing papers about how bigots are being prosecuted under Canada's hate speech laws now, so apparently gay marriage has resulted in us losing freedom (not that we had a lot of that to begin with, being socialists).
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:05 PM   #341
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You should care. Given we have a process, a system, in place for self-government you should care, regardless of the ruling, about the court's usurpation of power.
My "WHO CARES?" was directed at your continued rantings on the matter, the continued insistence that there was no debate (hello??), and your continued inability to accept the tides of change and the fact that by the time you reach old age, this will be an issue for almost nobody.

It just doesn't matter anymore.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:13 PM   #342
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I'd say the Muslim form of religion has the most tremendous act of self sacrifice of them all. Funny that they're not metnioned.
Self-sacrifice/agape love is essentially putting the needs of others before your own. Blowing others into bits - including yourself - does not qualify as agape love.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:16 PM   #343
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A little off topic: I'm crap with names and mostly associate people with their avatars. You used to have the Obi Wan avatar, right? If so, I remember thinking you were cool beans. Either way, welcome back.
Thanks, Jive. Yeah - I had Obi Wan at one point. Maybe I will go back to him, The "current" avatar was my World of Warcraft Paladin. But I don't play that much anymore - so maybe I'll bring back Obi Wan.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:05 PM   #344
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And Massaschusetts, which has has SSM since 2003, remains the state with the lowest divorce rate, best schools, etc.
Must be why our taxes are so high. Can't have it all good.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:06 PM   #345
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Thanks, Jive. Yeah - I had Obi Wan at one point. Maybe I will go back to him, The "current" avatar was my World of Warcraft Paladin. But I don't play that much anymore - so maybe I'll bring back Obi Wan.
Not digging the pandas?
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