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Old 06-22-2013, 02:19 PM   #196
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And even though, they're still words written down by man. So why should we take them as laws?
You won't find any arguments about this from me. But unfortunately, to debate with irrational beliefs, you need to debate down to that level. Really, "Yes, but it's all completely made up" puts the stamp on the whole thing
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:22 PM   #197
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Usually I disagree with nearly everything that you say about religion, but you reminded me of something that really bugs me about Christianity. In fact, this is one of the reasons why I left Christianity. The difference between God in the Old Testament and the New Testament drive me crazy. Many Christians try to write off every crazy thing that Leviticus says, but I always found the explanations for how God's personality could so radically shift to be unsatisfying. I also don't like the shift between borderline-racist God-of-one-ethnicity to God-of-all-people.
for me, it's one of the glaringly obvious proofs of it being man made (among many other things).
I assume you're still religious? Where does that leave you in regard to what god you believe in?
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:33 PM   #198
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There's a simple historical reason why the Hebrew/Torah god and the New Testament sense of divinity differ so radically: they were written as reflections of social conditions in radically different societies. One cannot expect a priest-dominated, largely agrarian society of shepherds in 1500 BCE to correlate well with the urbanized, Hellenistic society that gave rise to the New Testament gospels. If you look at these things as pieces of literature, then the whole picture falls into place quite neatly.

I will also add that - again from a completely historical standpoint - there is no such thing as modern-day "context" for biblical texts. They are reflections of wildly, wildly different societies in almost every way conceivable. In that sense debating how to interpret Leviticus for the modern day is a completely futile exercise.
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:36 PM   #199
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There's a simple historical reason why the Hebrew/Torah god and the New Testament sense of divinity differ so radically: they were written as reflections of social conditions in radically different societies. One cannot expect a priest-dominated, largely agrarian society of shepherds in 1500 BCE to correlate well with the urbanized, Hellenistic society that gave rise to the New Testament gospels. If you look at these things as pieces of literature, then the whole picture falls into place quite neatly.

I will also add that - again from a completely historical standpoint - there is no such thing as modern-day "context" for biblical texts. They are reflections of wildly, wildly different societies in almost every way conceivable. In that sense debating how to interpret Leviticus for the modern day is a completely futile exercise.


That probably puts them overdue for another revision
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:19 PM   #200
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for me, it's one of the glaringly obvious proofs of it being man made (among many other things).
I assume you're still religious? Where does that leave you in regard to what god you believe in?
I am not religious. I just tend to be somewhat of a religious apologist.

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There's a simple historical reason why the Hebrew/Torah god and the New Testament sense of divinity differ so radically: they were written as reflections of social conditions in radically different societies. One cannot expect a priest-dominated, largely agrarian society of shepherds in 1500 BCE to correlate well with the urbanized, Hellenistic society that gave rise to the New Testament gospels. If you look at these things as pieces of literature, then the whole picture falls into place quite neatly.

I will also add that - again from a completely historical standpoint - there is no such thing as modern-day "context" for biblical texts. They are reflections of wildly, wildly different societies in almost every way conceivable. In that sense debating how to interpret Leviticus for the modern day is a completely futile exercise.
Agree completely.
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:30 AM   #201
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There's a simple historical reason why the Hebrew/Torah god and the New Testament sense of divinity differ so radically: they were written as reflections of social conditions in radically different societies. One cannot expect a priest-dominated, largely agrarian society of shepherds in 1500 BCE to correlate well with the urbanized, Hellenistic society that gave rise to the New Testament gospels. If you look at these things as pieces of literature, then the whole picture falls into place quite neatly.

I will also add that - again from a completely historical standpoint - there is no such thing as modern-day "context" for biblical texts. They are reflections of wildly, wildly different societies in almost every way conceivable. In that sense debating how to interpret Leviticus for the modern day is a completely futile exercise.
Good point.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:25 PM   #202
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You say most Christians say Levitical law was abolished, but then why does your country in particular have such a huge problem that would imply the opposite?
One word: homophobia

No Christian denomination that I know of follows the pork, sideburns, etc laws. They all point to the Paul reference, even though Paul is referencing Leviticus.

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It would seem that a rather large percentage of Christians don't believe what you're saying at all.
I suppose you didn't say "interpret", but I don't think we should suddenly pretend like that has never been part of the argument
If you look back at some of the early gay marriage discussions in FYM and you'll find a lot of discussion on this. There's a lot of circular arguments, they will all admit that Levitical law was abolished, or some will try and gray the area and say that the law was "fulfilled" so it's still law but we just don't have to follow it to a T. But they'll all cling to the Paul reference to justify their stance.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:39 AM   #203
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So if it's Homophobia, and not written in the bible.... where does it come from? When did the humans decide that homophilia is bad? Really makes me wonder where it all went wrong.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:44 AM   #204
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You also have to wonder why there's such a strong correlation between homophobia and religiosity
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:21 PM   #205
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Oh no. After noticing that Pearl was online and checking some of her recent posts, I've stumbled on yet another thread about religion. The same old arguments that go nowhere. The same old posters arguing over the same old things. It leads us nowhere. So much ignorance and lack of understanding. I want answers, not arguments.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:22 PM   #206
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Didn't Jesus also say something about not coming to change the laws?
You say most Christians say Levitical law was abolished, but then why does your country in particular have such a huge problem that would imply the opposite? It would seem that a rather large percentage of Christians don't believe what you're saying at all.
I suppose you didn't say "interpret", but I don't think we should suddenly pretend like that has never been part of the argument
Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:31 PM   #207
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Oh no. After noticing that Pearl was online and checking some of her recent posts, I've stumbled on yet another thread about religion. The same old arguments that go nowhere. The same old posters arguing over the same old things. It leads us nowhere. So much ignorance and lack of understanding. I want answers, not arguments.
I guess the only thing less productive than that is posts like yours.
At least we're trying
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:58 PM   #208
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Trying to have an argument? I'm too old for arguing.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:08 PM   #209
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Oh no. After noticing that Pearl was online and checking some of her recent posts, I've stumbled on yet another thread about religion. The same old arguments that go nowhere. The same old posters arguing over the same old things. It leads us nowhere. So much ignorance and lack of understanding. I want answers, not arguments.


Er, am I being followed around here?

Pardon me, I just read this and thought it was odd.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:12 PM   #210
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Trying to have an argument? I'm too old for arguing.
I don't see any "arguing". I see people having a discussion. Would you like to chime in with something intelligent? There's always the option to not open the thread
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