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Old 03-27-2013, 11:44 PM   #976
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Broken families are a straight couple issue. Let's put the focus as to why families are breaking down. It has nothing to do with Steve marrying Steve.
In reality, it's a straight man issue. Single mothers, absent fathers, fathers in prison. See any trends there?


 
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:48 PM   #977
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Not every couple that gets married are going to have kids. If that is a requirement, then no female over the age of 45 or so should be allowed to marry or get remarried.
The amazing thing? The anti-14th amendment crowd thinks that I COULD have had children, even though I had my tubes tied 6 weeks after my wedding, and the COULD HAVE part is good enough for them. That's where the lie of their bullshit is.

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How long do you have to procreate before your marriage is invalidated?
You mock me when you tease her. My marriage has never been valid then.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:06 AM   #978
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In reality, it's a straight man issue. Single mothers, absent fathers, fathers in prison. See any trends there?
That's more than a little unfair
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:19 AM   #979
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You mock me when you tease her. My marriage has never been valid then.
Please submit your marriage resignation by COB tomorrow. We simply can't have anyone who isn't ideal, and your lack of procreation will be dealt with by HR.

Think of the children.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:45 AM   #980
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That's more than a little unfair
If one is making generalizations that same sex marriage messes up kids, and then one points to families without fathers in the home, then more than likely the absent father was a straight man who left his family. And then didn't pay child support.

You are not the one making these generalizations, but the ones who are, are ignoring the straight man elephant in the room.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:46 AM   #981
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Please submit your marriage resignation by COB tomorrow. We simply can't have anyone who isn't ideal, and your lack of procreation will be dealt with by HR.

Think of the children.

DAMMIT. And only a year and a half away from 25 years.


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Old 03-28-2013, 12:00 PM   #982
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If one is making generalizations that same sex marriage messes up kids, and then one points to families without fathers in the home, then more than likely the absent father was a straight man who left his family. And then didn't pay child support.

You are not the one making these generalizations, but the ones who are, are ignoring the straight man elephant in the room.
oooooooh. I suck at internetting
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #983
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DAMMIT. And only a year and a half away from 25 years.


why are you right now denying children their right to a mother and a father?
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:33 PM   #984
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I was married once, didn't last long at all. We rushed it, we were stupid, and we corrected a very big mistake.

I also don't ever want children. Never have, never will. I took measures to make sure this stays true, and honestly I wouldn't make a good dad. Have no desire to be a parent, and wouldn't make the effort if I had been one.

I don't see myself getting married again. No point, but I'd never stop anyone else from trying because of my own opinion on the subject.

but that's not ideal.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #985
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plus ca change, plus la meme:

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Won’t Somebody Think of the Children

By Brian Palmer|Posted Wednesday, March 27, 2013, at 4:34 PM


During yesterday’s oral arguments over the constitutionality of California’s ban on gay marriage, Justice Antonin Scalia claimed that there is “considerable disagreement among sociologists” as to whether being raised by a same-sex couple is “harmful to the child.” The lawyers arguing the case repeatedly brought up the landmark 1967 decision Loving v. Virginia, which struck down interracial marriage bans. Did supporters of the ban argue that interracial marriage was harmful to children in that case, too?

Absolutely.
The state of Virginia presented two arguments in support of its interracial marriage ban in 1967. The first was that the authors of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution explicitly stated that they did not intend to strike down anti-miscegenation laws, which were common in the 19th century. The second argument was that interracial marriages were uniquely prone to divorce and placed undue psychological stress on children.

The parallels between the two cases are striking. The defenders of California’s Prop 8 rely heavily on the work of University of Texas sociologist Mark Regnerus, who argued in a 2012 study that the children of people who engage in same-sex relationships have worse psychological, social, and economic outcomes. (The study generated enormous controversy, and its conclusions have been largely rejected by other social scientists.) In 1967, the state of Virginia’s expert of choice was Albert Gordon, whose book Intermarriage: Interfaith, Interracial, Interethnic attacked the adequacy of interracial parenting. According to Virginia’s solicitor general Robert McIlwaine, Gordon concluded that interracial marriages “hold no promise for a bright and happy future for mankind” and “bequeath to the progeny of those marriages more psychological problems than the parents have a right to bequeath to them.” Interracial marriage is so undesirable, McIlwaine continued, that its negative effects can’t even be managed. He argued that it “causes a child to have almost insuperable difficulties in identification and that the problems which a child of an interracial marriage faces are those which no child can come through without damage to himself.”

Virginia didn’t merely critique the parenting skills of interracial couples—the state attacked their very mental stability. Again citing Gordon, McIlwaine claimed that people who have the temerity to engage in interracial marriage have a “rebellious attitude towards society, self-hatred, neurotic tendencies, immaturity, and other detrimental psychological factors.” The implication was that these qualities rendered them unfit parents. The fact that the defenders of Prop 8 did not make similar arguments about gay people before the Supreme Court on Tuesday, even though such attitudes still exist, is an indication of how society has changed since 1967. (The language used in the oral arguments is another indication: Both the justices and the attorneys in the Loving oral argument repeatedly used antiquated racial terms like Mongol, Malay, negro, and mongrel.)

There are a few interracial parenting arguments from Loving that Prop 8’s defenders simply could not adapt to their own case. For example, pointing to comments by a University of Chicago professor, Virginia hinted in 1967 that intermingling the genes of different races might result in unknown physical deformities.

It’s somewhat surprising that the attorneys for Prop 8 chose to make the “bad parents” argument at all, because it gained no traction in 1967. Justice Potter Stewart pointed out during the hearing that “one reason that marriages of this kind are sometimes unsuccessful is the existence of the kind of laws that are in issue here.” Chief Justice Earl Warren apparently found the argument so unconvincing that he barely mentioned it in his opinion striking down Virginia’s anti-miscegenation law.

The anti-anti-miscegenation reformers may have faced a slightly easier road back in 1967 than gay marriage advocates face today. In the 13 years that passed between Brown v. Board of Education and Loving, more than a dozen states repealed their bans on interracial marriage. Today, nine states have approved gay marriage, either by vote, legislation, or judicial decision. Although there is little data on public attitudes toward anti-miscegenation laws in 1967, only 37 percent of Americans supported them by 1972. Nearly one-half of the country still opposes gay marriage.

Gay marriage at the Supreme Court: Did interracial marriage opponents claim to be helping the children? - Slate Magazine
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:07 PM   #986
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I knew that was a mistake. Well, too late now. Society is fucked
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:23 PM   #987
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So, I ask of you INDY, what exactly is different between the argument you are making about the ideal parenting unit and the argument made in 1967 regarding interracial parents?
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:39 PM   #988
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why are you right now denying children their right to a mother and a father?


 
We keep trying to have children. Frequently.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:17 PM   #989
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I have never nor will ever understand what makes having a shitty mother and father more ideal than having two great mothers or two great fathers.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:34 PM   #990
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Fox News host Bill O’Reilly, said on Tuesday that same-sex marriage advocates have a more convincing argument than opponents, who do nothing but rehash scripture to make their point.

"The compelling argument is on the side of homosexuals," O'Reilly said Tuesday on Fox. "That's where the compelling argument is. 'We're Americans. We just want to be treated like everybody else.' That's a compelling argument, and to deny that, you have got to have a very strong argument on the other side. The argument on the other side hasn't been able to do anything but thump the Bible."

O'Reilly has previously stated he takes a libertarian view on the issue, and repeated Tuesday night that it's a decision that should be left up to the states. "I support civil unions. I always have. The gay marriage thing, I don't feel that strongly about it one way or another."
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