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Old 03-14-2013, 07:16 PM   #841
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this is awesome, and deeply moving:

Minnesota House Testimony by Lynne Osterman House File 1054 Marriage Equality - YouTube
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:23 AM   #842
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this is awesome, too

Republican senator announces support for gay marriage
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:58 AM   #843
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awesome, and the right thing, but isn't it strange that Republicans only seem to find compassion when their self-interest is at stake?
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:34 AM   #844
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Ax, Cobbler, what's the view of people in Australia on gay marriage, from what you can gather? Are most people okay with it, or more homophobic ish(I'd predict the bogan's don't quite like it but I may be wrong with that)?
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:56 PM   #845
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I think the people who put more than three seconds of thought into it realise that it's fine. But there are a lot of homophobes.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:12 PM   #846
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this is lovely as said by Portman:

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British Prime Minister David Cameron has said he supports allowing gay couples to marry because he is a conservative, not in spite of it. I feel the same way. We conservatives believe in personal liberty and minimal government interference in people’s lives. We also consider the family unit to be the fundamental building block of society. We should encourage people to make long-term commitments to each other and build families, so as to foster strong, stable communities and promote personal responsibility.

One way to look at it is that gay couples’ desire to marry doesn’t amount to a threat but rather a tribute to marriage, and a potential source of renewed strength for the institution.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:19 PM   #847
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Oh by the way, there's this big uproar in Turkey apparently that a mother, whose children were put up for adoption for various reasons, claims she wants her child back because he's being raised by a lesbian, married couple. They also bitch about Turkish children being raised by Christian couples, that it should be allowed. Geez...
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:56 PM   #848
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Then go to an agency that will go along with your preferences. Did she know beforehand who were going to adopt her child? I don't know how Turkey does it, but I assume this wasn't a closed adoption.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:09 PM   #849
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Ax, Cobbler, what's the view of people in Australia on gay marriage, from what you can gather? Are most people okay with it, or more homophobic ish(I'd predict the bogan's don't quite like it but I may be wrong with that)?
Most polling shows there's quite strong popular support, I think around about two-thirds of the population. When the gay marriage bill last year failed, a lot of people pointed out that parliament did not at all reflect the opinion of Australia as a whole. The main opposition to gay marriage comes from some bogans and the more vocal fundamentalist religious types.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #850
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Most polling shows there's quite strong popular support, I think around about two-thirds of the population. When the gay marriage bill last year failed, a lot of people pointed out that parliament did not at all reflect the opinion of Australia as a whole. The main opposition to gay marriage comes from some bogans and the more vocal fundamentalist religious types.
A lot of the politicians who voted it down did so because they toed the party line as well.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:38 AM   #851
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A lot of the politicians who voted it down did so because they toed the party line as well.
I was genuinely surprised no Liberal backbenchers defied party policy and crossed the floor, especially in the Senate where a couple had made noises about it. Although ALP members are banned from crossing the floor, no such prohibition exists within the Liberal Party, and up until fairly recently some Libs - especially a handful in the Senate - fiercely maintained their independence. There was one, I think from Tasmania, who crossed the floor 150 times in his career.

The fact only about half of the ALP voted for gay marriage despite having a conscience vote shows just how out-of-touch they are with their constituents and popular sentiment in general. It's also showing up the growing disparity between Labour in Australia and New Zealand. The ALP is increasingly being torn between its socially conservative and liberal factions and can't quite decide whether it is left wing or centrist, while New Zealand Labour is clearly a party of the left (or at least centre-left). New Zealand Labour is technically voting on gay marriage as a conscience vote, but it might as well be party policy - only 3 of their 33 MPs are voting against it.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:00 AM   #852
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Then go to an agency that will go along with your preferences. Did she know beforehand who were going to adopt her child? I don't know how Turkey does it, but I assume this wasn't a closed adoption.
We got more info today in the paper. Apparently the family was dysfunctional and her three kids were taken after this boy ended up in hospital 5 months old covered in bruises. These three have been with the lesbian couple since, the boy is now 9 years old. The biological mother has already kidnapped his older twin brothers to Turkey to have their grandparents raise them, but that coup failed and the boys were returned to their adoptive parents. Who have been raising them lovingly, and also sent them to Turkish lessons so they learn about their biological descent. They have been nothing but great parents to the boys for almost 9 years, yet now the biological mother whines to the Turkish prime minister about it and their entire country goes into an uproar against ours? The feck is wrong with people?



Apparently Erdoghan will be visiting our country soon, so that'll be fun. There's chance for demonstrations in The Hague. Bloody ridiculous. If you don't want a perfectly fine lesbian couple to take care of your kids, take proper care of them yourself!!
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:01 AM   #853
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Most polling shows there's quite strong popular support, I think around about two-thirds of the population. When the gay marriage bill last year failed, a lot of people pointed out that parliament did not at all reflect the opinion of Australia as a whole. The main opposition to gay marriage comes from some bogans and the more vocal fundamentalist religious types.
Okay that's quite a lot then. Shame it didn't go through, but maybe that'll happen sooner or later when the majority becomes more vocal so the politicians realise that their follow actually do support it.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:55 AM   #854
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Okay that's quite a lot then. Shame it didn't go through, but maybe that'll happen sooner or later when the majority becomes more vocal so the politicians realise that their follow actually do support it.
Unfortunately I'm not confident. Gay marriage may be a big issue, but it's not the biggest issue in Australian politics right now. Elections at the moment are largely decided in bogan parts of western Sydney and Queensland. They hate taxes and they've been convinced that the current government's price on carbon is a tax when it's no more a tax than parking fines are a tax on driving. They want more middle class welfare ("zomg we've pulled little Jimmy out of the state-run school and put him in a private school and now there are fees?!?!? We want the government to pay for that too!!!!1!!11"). They're xenophobic, so the rather benign matter of asylum seekers has been whipped up into a racist fervour that poisons any and all political discourse that comes into contact with it. And these are also the places where you're most likely to find homophobic types.

The current state of play with the major parties is:
Labour (centre-left): Currently in power, has adopted gay marriage as party policy but members of parliament are permitted a conscience vote rather than having to follow party lines. Some right-wing unions are quite powerful within Labour and their leadership is socially conservative, hence the failure for more than half the party's members to vote for gay marriage. Labour's historically been based around the working class and had an emphasis on class conflict; it is struggling to adjust to modern progressive politics and the reality that almost everybody in Australia now sees themselves as middle class.
Liberal (centre-right): Will almost certainly win the September election. Party policy at the moment opposes gay marriage. Due to the nature of Aussie politics, the Libs will almost certainly be in power for the next six years if they win, and probably nine. However, some prominent members do support gay marriage and the party might revise its policy to permit members a conscience vote in the next few years. The combined vote of socially liberal Liberal and Labour politicians alongside the Greens might be enough to get gay marriage over the line, but I don't see this scenario happening until at least 2016-17.
Nationals (centre-right agrarian): Minor partner of the Liberals in coalition. Represent rural constituencies that are socially conservative. Definitely won't support gay marriage.
Greens (left): The only major party at the moment that is actually committed to supporting gay marriage.

It's depressing! Right now the best hope is that individual states will pass gay marriage laws and then seeing how the High Court interprets the constitution (since it's debatable whether states can legislate for gay marriage or not). It's likely that a gay marriage bill will pass in at least one state this year.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:11 AM   #855
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Ironically enough Tassie is probably the closest state to passing it, which is pretty good considering it was the last state to decriminalise homosexuality and NSW has the Mardi Gras.
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