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Old 02-27-2013, 07:43 PM   #826
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spelled out perfectly:


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However, in the years since Massachusetts and other states have made civil marriage a reality for same-sex couples, amici, like many Americans, have observed the impact, assessed their core values and beliefs, and concluded that there is no legitimate, fact-based reason for denying same-sex couples the same recognition in law that is available to opposite-sex couples who wish to marry. Rather, we have concluded that the institution of marriage, its benefits and importance to society, and the support and stability it gives to children and families are promoted, not undercut, by providing access to civil marriage for same-sex couples.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:56 PM   #827
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so what

decent, Bible believing Americans have allies, too

Russian anti-gay bill sets off furor - Washington Post
The national bill follows the passage of similar laws in St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk and three other cities, tapping into an ideology promoted by President Vladimir Putin and his circle that combines anti-Westernism, Russian exceptionalism and conservative Orthodox religious beliefs.

Sounds like pre-World War I Russia. Time to call Putin a Tsar?
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:37 PM   #828
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Fully agreed with the quote Irvine shared. One of those "No duh, told you so" things, but still, people are continuing to realize and get it, and that's always a good thing.

to any movements currently going on to further allow gay marriage to become legal.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:40 PM   #829
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Clint Eastwood to Supreme Court: Drop California's ban on same-sex marriage - U.S. News
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:27 PM   #830
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It’s time to overturn DOMA
By Bill Clinton,

The writer is the 42nd president of the United States.

In 1996, I signed the Defense of Marriage Act. Although that was only 17 years ago, it was a very different time. In no state in the union was same-sex marriage recognized, much less available as a legal right, but some were moving in that direction. Washington, as a result, was swirling with all manner of possible responses, some quite draconian. As a bipartisan group of former senators stated in their March 1 amicus brief to the Supreme Court, many supporters of the bill known as DOMA believed that its passage “would defuse a movement to enact a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, which would have ended the debate for a generation or more.” It was under these circumstances that DOMA came to my desk, opposed by only 81 of the 535 members of Congress.

On March 27, DOMA will come before the Supreme Court, and the justices must decide whether it is consistent with the principles of a nation that honors freedom, equality and justice above all, and is therefore constitutional. As the president who signed the act into law, I have come to believe that DOMA is contrary to those principles and, in fact, incompatible with our Constitution.

Because Section 3 of the act defines marriage as being between a man and a woman, same-sex couples who are legally married in nine states and the District of Columbia are denied the benefits of more than a thousand federal statutes and programs available to other married couples. Among other things, these couples cannot file their taxes jointly, take unpaid leave to care for a sick or injured spouse or receive equal family health and pension benefits as federal civilian employees. Yet they pay taxes, contribute to their communities and, like all couples, aspire to live in committed, loving relationships, recognized and respected by our laws.

When I signed the bill, I included a statement with the admonition that “enactment of this legislation should not, despite the fierce and at times divisive rhetoric surrounding it, be understood to provide an excuse for discrimination.” Reading those words today, I know now that, even worse than providing an excuse for discrimination, the law is itself discriminatory. It should be overturned.

We are still a young country, and many of our landmark civil rights decisions are fresh enough that the voices of their champions still echo, even as the world that preceded them becomes less and less familiar. We have yet to celebrate the centennial of the 19th Amendment, but a society that denied women the vote would seem to us now not unusual or old-fashioned but alien. I believe that in 2013 DOMA and opposition to marriage equality are vestiges of just such an unfamiliar society.

Americans have been at this sort of a crossroads often enough to recognize the right path. We understand that, while our laws may at times lag behind our best natures, in the end they catch up to our core values. One hundred fifty years ago, in the midst of the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln concluded a message to Congress by posing the very question we face today: “It is not ‘Can any of us imagine better?’ but ‘Can we all do better?’ ”

The answer is of course and always yes. In that spirit, I join with the Obama administration, the petitioner Edith Windsor, and the many other dedicated men and women who have engaged in this struggle for decades in urging the Supreme Court to overturn the Defense of Marriage Act.


Bill Clinton: It’s time to overturn DOMA - The Washington Post
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:23 AM   #831
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Second reading of New Zealand's gay marriage bill passed 77-44, a decline of only three votes since the first reading. Now it goes into committee before its third reading, and unless something drastic happens there, it should pass.

I'd just like to point out here that we have a conservative government at present too. And the other minor right wing parties in parliament are also voting for it, with the exception of New Zealand First - shameless populists whose only voters are angry old people in Tauranga. The ACT Party, for instance, are actually living up to their talk about opposing big government and intrusions on individual freedom in all its forms. Republicans, take notes.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:40 AM   #832
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Second reading of New Zealand's gay marriage bill passed 77-44, a decline of only three votes since the first reading. Now it goes into committee before its third reading, and unless something drastic happens there, it should pass.

I'd just like to point out here that we have a conservative government at present too. And the other minor right wing parties in parliament are also voting for it, with the exception of New Zealand First - shameless populists whose only voters are angry old people in Tauranga. The ACT Party, for instance, are actually living up to their talk about opposing big government and intrusions on individual freedom in all its forms. Republicans, take notes.
That's great news.

Same-sex marriage is inevitable in the United States, I think. I just wish it would happen sooner rather than later.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:47 AM   #833
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Great news indeed. Seems like the ball is rolling quite fast now, should be only a matter of time before most 'western' countries start to accept it. I figure either Italy or the US will be last. Italy as it has the Vatican lobby... unless the new pope suddenly is very modern, lol.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:23 AM   #834
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I don't know. Australia is pretty far from legalising it sadly and if the election goes the way of the polls in September we'll be going even further backwards.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:57 PM   #835
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Hey Cobbo, do you watch an Australian show called Q&A? I watched one recently on youtube with Lawrence Krauss. Was pretty good
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:25 PM   #836
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Colorado has passed a Civil Unions bill, Minnesota took a step toward legalizing SSM, though we'll see. Should pass eventually there.
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #837
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Hey Cobbo, do you watch an Australian show called Q&A? I watched one recently on youtube with Lawrence Krauss. Was pretty good
He does and he used to tweet about it a lot.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:56 PM   #838
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He does and he used to tweet about it a lot.
Heh. I don't watch it as much anymore.

You should check out a YouTube video called A Universe from Nothing jt, it's a speech by Krauss.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #839
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Every person's view should be considered

Corporations urge Supreme Court to embrace gay marriage | Reuters
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #840
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I don't know. Australia is pretty far from legalising it sadly and if the election goes the way of the polls in September we'll be going even further backwards.
Yeah, I'm worried that Australia's pretty far off - even if Abbott's been making more conciliatory noises lately. Reeks of an election stunt, but if he did permit the Coalition a conscience vote, there might be a chance, especially if the ALP comes around. The problem within the ALP is that a couple of powerful right-wing unions have leaders (who are completely out of touch with their members) who vehemently oppose gay marriage and are making life difficult within the ALP party ranks. The ALP's already had a couple of damaging splits, in World War I and in the 1950s, so they don't want it to happen again. But these knobheads should retire or die fairly soon and stop holding the party hostage to their bigotry.

The Aussie and Kiwi parliaments right now are a stunning contrast, especially since Australia has normally not been far behind New Zealand when it comes to progressive legislation. I suppose it indicates that New Zealand's right wing at the moment is more defined by economic ideology while Australia's has a greater emphasis on social conservatism.
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