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Old 08-03-2012, 08:36 PM   #61
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Exactly. And, as for the religion argument, I just finished ranting about "Bible-believing Christians" using Leviticus as a basis for their arguments. If I hear one more person reference that, there will be blood. It's ignorant, and it makes me look ignorant by association.

But yes, there are arguments in the Bible against homosexuality. There are arguments against lying as well. Arguments against premarital sex and divorce abound, as well.

The minute the government begins to legislate morality is the minute morality loses worth, and the people lose freedom.
That's all I can ask for. Much respect.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:38 PM   #62
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The minute the government begins to legislate morality is the minute morality loses worth, and the people lose freedom.
Cannot agree with this enough.

The other part of your stance we'll part ways on, but I too appreciate that you don't think it right to force your beliefs on others, and that the Leviticus stuff is as irritating to you as it is to us.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by INDY500

Exactly what I think when I read posts defending hate speech laws, campus speech codes, political correctness, vilifying Citizens United or when liberal metropolitan mayors threaten to use the powers of government to remove businesses with nonconforming "values." The very definition of fascism.
Exactly! I have every right to say whatever I want in this country. That's what our founders intended! I also agree with your earlier posts, we shouldn't punish businesses that have noncomforming values and the only way this liberal wickedness is going to stop is if we elect people with strong Christian values who will use the hand of God to repeal these laws! Liberals have conspired against and repressed Christians long enough in this country, now it's our turn! The only way to save this country is to bring God back into government and to spread our values to every man woman and child in this country, whether they accept them or not!
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:53 PM   #64
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I think you're no better or worse than I am. If we legislated based on Biblical principles, I'd have many restrictions on my liberty, as well. I'm glad we don't.
exactly. all your posts today have been great, i just wanted to be different and quote this one.

i'm a christian as well (though i'm a liberal one i guess, i've never put any thought in it) and i focus far more on the pacifist parts of the scripture such as love thy neighbour and the golden rule. i wouldn't want to be discriminated against or told i couldn't marry the person i love, so i've no issues with two men or two women who wish to marry.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:50 AM   #65
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What do you value more? Equality or liberty?
Now that I am at a computer, I have a bit more time to fully respond to this.

I have seen you reference this both in posts and in your signature. But I do not feel that this is a valid question in this debate.

The question is a loaded one, implying that, in this particular debate over the merits of legalizing same-sex marriage, we need to either sacrifice equality or liberty. That for same-sex couples to achieve equality under the law, the liberty of some people will be infringed upon. That to maintain the liberty of all, some equality under the law will have to be sacrificed.

But I, and many others, still fail to see how same-sex marriage infringes upon any American's liberty.

I know it has been asked a thousand times of you, but I will ask for the 1,001st time: if same-sex marriage is legalized, what negative impact will there be?
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #66
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I know it has been asked a thousand times of you, but I will ask for the 1,001st time: if same-sex marriage is legalized, what negative impact will there be?

Aaannnndd, he's gone.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:35 PM   #67
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Well because there is no way to be sure what form god's wrath will take.

 
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:35 PM   #68
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Amazing.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:35 PM   #69
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The only way to save this country is to bring God back into government and to spread our values to every man woman and child in this country, whether they accept them or not!
How does that work, like spreading manure?
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:44 PM   #70
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yes
nourishment for the soul
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:29 PM   #71
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I'm starting to think INDY either knows he's wrong to be against LGBTs and is afraid to admit it because he'll realize all that he believes in would be wrong too, or he harbors some very strong homophobia and won't voice them here or else he'll be banned. That's my theory anyway.
What? No theory that I speak out boldly against same-sex marriage in hopes of repressing my latent homosexuality??

Well I have a theory too. Pearl doesn't know what the hell she's talking about because Pearl obviously feels it's impossible to be against redefining marriage to include members of the same sex without hating gays.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:38 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
Now that I am at a computer, I have a bit more time to fully respond to this.

I have seen you reference this both in posts and in your signature. But I do not feel that this is a valid question in this debate.

The question is a loaded one, implying that, in this particular debate over the merits of legalizing same-sex marriage, we need to either sacrifice equality or liberty. That for same-sex couples to achieve equality under the law, the liberty of some people will be infringed upon. That to maintain the liberty of all, some equality under the law will have to be sacrificed.

But I, and many others, still fail to see how same-sex marriage infringes upon any American's liberty.

I know it has been asked a thousand times of you, but I will ask for the 1,001st time: if same-sex marriage is legalized, what negative impact will there be?
You can look back on the old thread -- way back on July 21st and 22nd -- as well as the question I'm about to ask Martha, to see negative impacts I can see. And a thread on equality vs liberty would make an interesting topic IMO.

As for equality and marriage, let's start with this. Can you name me a society, present or past, that has not places limits or restrictions (made unequal in other words) on the practice of marriage? Limits regarding age, number, bloodline or sex?
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:56 PM   #73
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What? No theory that I speak out boldly against same-sex marriage in hopes of repressing my latent homosexuality??

Well I have a theory too. Pearl doesn't know what the hell she's talking about because Pearl obviously feels it's impossible to be against redefining marriage to include members of the same sex without hating gays.
Cute, real cute.

Shouldn't you be aware by now that it is rather impossible to say you are not against gays yet insist on denying their rights?

I don't really think you actually hate gay people, but you seem to lack a lot of compassion for them.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:58 PM   #74
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Aaannnndd, he's gone.
Martha. As it's one against everyone maybe you'll indulge me and answer a question or two for me.

Would you support your mayor if he or she used the power of government to keep Chick-fil-a from opening a franchise in your bankrupt California town (I'm assuming) regardless of the fact that they would bring jobs and tax revenues?

Are the residents of your town that supported Prop 8 to maintain marriage as one man and one woman any less civic-minded or respectable citizens of California because of their position on that issue?

As you have stated previously that opposition to same-sex marriage is analogous to anti-miscegenation laws that barred blacks and whites from marrying; what tolerance should the state of California have (and what do you personally have) for citizens, churches or business owners that have a biblical or traditional view of marriage and continue to express that view publicly or politically?

Thank you for your answers in advance.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:12 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by INDY500

What? No theory that I speak out boldly against same-sex marriage in hopes of repressing my latent homosexuality??

Well I have a theory too. Pearl doesn't know what the hell she's talking about because Pearl obviously feels it's impossible to be against redefining marriage to include members of the same sex without hating gays.

Why does the inclusion of same-sex couples involve a "redefining"?
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