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Old 10-24-2012, 03:20 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Here's what he wrote in his blog

The last few hours have been a bit of a whirlwind for me, to say the least. I’m really heartened by all of the emails, Facebook messages, and kind words that I’ve received over the last 24 hours. As I read each one, I don’t see them simply as messages that seek to affirm a particular talk I gave on a particular night in Springfield, MO (as grateful as I am for such affirmations), but rather, I view them as a reflection of the thousands — indeed, the millions — of people who, on a daily basis, are journeying together because we believe that our world can be a better place, a fairer place, a more beautiful place — for all people and not just for some — and we won’t stop calling for a more beautiful world to be born. I’m also grateful for all of the people who have come before us — many whose names history won’t recall — who have allowed us to be where we are now, on whose shoulders we stand. These folks may not be famous — more times than not they are friends or family members who have bravely told their story, often in the face of major consequences. They are the ones who have brought us to this place, and we carry their stories with us as we try to build a a more just world.

In time I hope to respond to each email I receive, but at this point I simply can’t keep up with all of them. But please know how grateful I am to each of you. Here are a couple of things that consistently come up in the emails, so I thought I’d share some quick responses here:

A lot of people ask, “How can a pastor who values the Bible take this kind of stance?” Truth be told, there are a bunch of pastors and people of faith across the country who are open and affirming — not in spite of their faith, but precisely because of it. And the number of open and affirming people of faith is rapidly increasing. Brian McLaren offers the following perspective, which deeply resonates with my experiences as a pastor:

I inherited a theology that told me [that] homosexuality is a sin, so although we should not condemn (i.e. stone them), we must tell people to “go and sin no more.” Believe me, for many years as a pastor I tried to faithfully uphold this position, and sadly, I now feel that I unintentionally damaged many people in doing so. Thankfully, I had a long succession of friends who were gay. And then I had a long succession of parishioners come out to me. They endured my pronouncements. They listened and responded patiently as I brought up the famous six or seven Bible passages again and again. They didn’t break ranks with me and in fact showed amazing grace and patience to me when I was showing something much less to them.

Over time, I could not square their stories and experiences with the theology I had inherited. So I re-opened the issue, read a lot of books, re-studied the Scriptures, and eventually came to believe that just as the Western church had been wrong on slavery, wrong on colonialism, wrong on environmental plunder, wrong on subordinating women, wrong on segregation and apartheid (all of which it justified biblically) … we had been wrong on this issue. In this process, I did not reject the Bible. In fact, my love and reverence for the Bible increased when I became more aware of the hermeneutical assumptions on which many now-discredited traditional interpretations were based and defended. I was able to distinguish “what the Bible says” from “what this school of interpretation says the Bible says,” and that helped me in many ways.

So – many years before I learned I had members of my own close family who were gay – my view changed. As you can imagine, when this issue suddenly became a live issue in my own family, I was relieved that I was already in a place where I would not harm them as (I’m ashamed to say this) I had harmed some gay people (other people’s sons and daughters) earlier in my ministry.


Secondly, to the many of you who said, “I wish I lived in Springfield, because yours is a church I could actually attend!” Well, this kind of statement makes my day. We have tried to build a community of faith based on the intentional welcome of all people, especially those who have felt hurt and/or alienated by the church and/or Christianity. Every Sunday, we have a welcome statement that goes like this:

No matter who you are or where you are on life’s journey, you are welcome here:

If you are young or old, you are welcome

If you have brown skin, black skin, white skin, yellow skin or any color of skin, you are welcome

If you are married or single, you are welcome

If you are gay or straight, you are welcome

If you cannot hear or see, you are welcome

If you are sick or well, you are welcome

If you are a man or a woman, you are welcome

If you are happy or sad, you are welcome

If you are rich or poor, powerful or weak, you are welcome

If you believe in God some of the time or none of the time or all of the time, you are welcome here

I also want you to know that there are several churches around the US with a similar ethos. We may not be big churches or fancy churches, but we are there. We may listen to Stephen Colbert more than the pope, but we are there. We may not have a Starbucks in our building (we may not even have a building!), but we are there. So I encourage you to check out some of the communities of faith in your area — perhaps those that are part of the United Church of Christ (which is not the same thing as the Church of Christ), the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), The Disciples of Christ, or perhaps the Episcopalian Church. While none are perfect by any stretch of the imagination (some of the churches aren’t very big, and often there aren’t very many young people), these denominations ordain openly gay clergy and tend to work toward equality for all people. As the United Church of Christ likes to say, “Our faith is 2,000 years old. Our thinking is not.” If you live in a particular area and want a suggestion on churches to perhaps visit, please feel free to send me a message, I’d be glad to help as I can.

Finally, a quick disclaimer related to my speech: I recognize that the discrimination experienced by African-Americans in the history of the United States has its own nuances and characteristics, so it’s important to highlight the different ways that discrimination functions in our society. With the great Cornel West, I believe that any form of discrimination and oppression (whether based on race, socioeconomic status, or sexual orientation) is problematic, and we should constantly work toward building a better world. But this doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone who has experienced discrimination has experienced it in the same way (this is similar to bell hooks’ observation related to the film Crash, in which she mentioned that for all its strengths Crash didn’t adequately delve into the differences in race relations between a variety of different ethnic groups, and that the history of slavery in the US leads to experiences among African-Americans that are not necessarily the same as the experiences of, say, Muslims in America.) To be sure, all forms of discrimination are obviously problematic, and none are acceptable. But the experience of discrimination in the US is not a one-size-fits-all category, and the more we recognize the differences between various forms of discrimination the more we honor those who’ve experienced discrimination, and the better equipped we are to work toward building a better world that honors the integrity and dignity of all people.

My gratitude to each of you as we try to build a better world together, as we try to live into what Desmond Tutu once called the dreams of God for this world. Not for some people, but for all people.
That is beautifully written.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:04 PM   #707
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A longtime proponent of marriage equality, Brad Pitt has put his money where his mouth is.

The actor has donated $100,000 to the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) to support the organization's efforts in campaigning for marriage equality in Maine, Maryland, Minnesota and Washington State.

"It's unbelievable to me that people's lives and relationships are literally being voted on in a matter of days," Pitt, 48, wrote in an email to HRC members and supporters on Wednesday. "If you're like me, you don't want to have to ask yourself on the day after the election, what else could I have done?"


(Also raises him in my books a bit after that awful Chanel commercial.)
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:01 PM   #708
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That Chanel commercial is hilarious
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:19 PM   #709
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Especially the SNL parodies.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:12 PM   #710
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Study: Teens With Lesbian Mothers Do Better In School, Happier In Life � CBS Las Vegas



and just read the comments section to know what we're up against.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:23 PM   #711
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My mood today is too precarious for me to read comments from troglodytes.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #712
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My mood today is too precarious for me to read comments from troglodytes.


come now, people who object to same-sex marriage and/or parenting do so only out of sincere religious conviction or a genuine concern about the erosion of gender distinctions.

you know, like this:

Quote:
Greg Barton • 2 hours ago
Only the left would equate children noting tacit approval for inappropriate behavior as "happiness".
All that is missing is the brown shirts.
I can't WAIT until the adults are back in charge.
55 1 •Reply•Share ›
Quote:
1tymtrvlr • 2 hours ago
I'll bet the study was done by homosexuals, like all laws defending homosexuals were upheld by ..... wait for it.......wait for it.......... you got it, homosexual judges and politicians. Every society that has come to a disasterous end, was taken down when the homosexuals were governing.
Quote:
TexasGirl • an hour ago −
This is just another of the experiments that liberals have inflicted on our children. The public school has been used to try new ways of discipline (none), new ideas on self-esteem (me, me, me), new ideas on history (suddenly Columbus and the pilgrims are bad guys), and certainly new ideas on sexual matters. There is no way we can have even begun to see the effects of this experiment - it hasn't been long enough. Who knows what kinds of problems these kids will develop? I know one thing - they won't think much of traditional marriage or morality.
Quote:
doc • an hour ago
What about the mountains of studies that indicate that homosexuality is a sick, perverse, non-functional lifestyle that overwhelmingly leads to clinical depression and often suicide?
3 •Reply•Share ›
Quote:
ManOnPoint • an hour ago
Total BS!!! 2% of the population trying to promote their deviant, filthy lifestyle...
3 •Reply•Share ›
Quote:
SK • an hour ago −
All this tells me is that women are better at raising children. Societies of the past recognized this which was why when stayed home while the men worked.


see?
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:49 PM   #713
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You are intolerant for not respecting their right to be intolerant.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #714
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I am very hopeful about WA state. The early returns were looking good.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:26 PM   #715
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When I read comments on online same sex marriage articles, well it is VERY depressing. I try to tell myself that they are outnumbered by other opinions and that those people aren't posting. I want to do it and sometimes I do, but mostly there' s no reasoning with them.

Maine has it on the ballot tomorrow. I read an article yesterday in the paper about a 92 year old guy from Maine
who had changed his mind and was now supporting same sex marriage. So sometimes when things are discouraging, people can surprise you. My favorite place to go in Maine is a liberal very gay friendly beach town that is also a straight friendly vacation spot. All types of families go there. Just an awesome place where everyone seems to feel welcome.

I get it completely that it's easy for me to say, not having people voting on my right to marry and not being subjected to comments like that- and worse.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:57 PM   #716
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I am very hopeful about WA state. The early returns were looking good.


we win in WA and ME. we lose in MN. MD is too close to call, but most undecideds break against equality.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:57 PM   #717
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You are intolerant for not respecting their right to be intolerant.

what it really comes down to is that most people who are homophobic also hate women. reading into many of these comments, that's really what it is.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #718
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I have absolutely no problem believing that to be true, Irvine.

Quote:
Greg Barton • 2 hours ago
Only the left would equate children noting tacit approval for inappropriate behavior as "happiness".
All that is missing is the brown shirts.
I can't WAIT until the adults are back in charge.
55 1 •Reply•Share ›
Brown shirts ?

And yeah, children are clearly just being brainwashed! If a child loves their mother and their mother's girlfriend or wife, well, it's just the product of evil mind control, nothing to do with a child just happening to genuinely love their parents. That's crazy talk!

Quote:
1tymtrvlr • 2 hours ago
I'll bet the study was done by homosexuals, like all laws defending homosexuals were upheld by ..... wait for it.......wait for it.......... you got it, homosexual judges and politicians. Every society that has come to a disasterous end, was taken down when the homosexuals were governing.
Oooooh, yes, it's all a big conspiracy, you've cracked the code there, Sherlock !

So...going by that logic, I must be gay, then, too, because I also support laws defending homosexuals. Good to know my true self has finally been revealed!

The rest I don't even want to get into otherwise my head will REALLY start hurting. Oy. Yeah. Anyone on this board who happens to be against gay marriage, these are the sorts of brilliant minds you're aligned with. Something to think about.

Anywho, as has been noted elsewhere, I'm really anxious to see the results of the Minnesota vote on this issue tomorrow. The "no" vote is the pro-gay marriage one, that's the one to root for. After hearing all the anti-gay marriage people's cry of, "Let the people decide this issue, leave it to the citizens instead of politicians and judges!" all over the place, if the people's vote tomorrow DOES go for the pro-gay marriage vote, I will not be able to wipe the smirk that results from my face.

Plus, I'm also looking forward to tomorrow so I don't have to see the stupid ad anymore about, "Oh, my god, if gay marriage is legal kids will learn in school that boys can marry boys and parents can't be notified in advance of any homosexual education in schools and they won't be allowed to pull their kids out of class that day anymore waaaaaaah!" Just...shut up, you dumbasses.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:47 PM   #719
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Plus, I'm also looking forward to tomorrow so I don't have to see the stupid ad anymore about, "Oh, my god, if gay marriage is legal kids will learn in school that boys can marry boys and parents can't be notified in advance of any homosexual education in schools and they won't be allowed to pull their kids out of class that day anymore waaaaaaah!" Just...shut up, you dumbasses.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people out there who believe this.

Heck, some of my relatives seriously believe gay people are calling themselves a race - because they insist that they are a minority.

When I pointed out how absurd and untrue that was, I was basically told I didn't know what I was talking about. Hmph. So who's the intolerant one forcing others to shut up?
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:16 PM   #720
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I'm fully convinced there are people who buy into that crap, sadly. I also wonder how they think pulling their kids out of school will solve the problem. What happens if their kids run into a neighbor or classmate whose parents happen to be gay? What if, on parent-teacher night, the parents who freak out about this stuff to that extent run into a gay couple? Are they planning on shutting their kids in their homes their whole lives to "protect" them from anything that doesn't fit their particular worldview?

To say nothing of the whole weird thing that's been going on in society in recent times with people freaking out because schools aren't bowing down to someone's personal wish list of what "should" and "shouldn't" be taught.

Gay people are a race now? Wow. That's news to me, but I guess, like you, I don't know what I'm talking about, either. I feel like I need to send them a dictionary with the word "minority" highlighted/circled/tabbed/what have you.
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