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Old 10-09-2012, 08:42 AM   #616
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People should be free to make or keep other people less free if they so choose.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:19 AM   #617
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Yeah!!!!! America can get back to kicking the world's ass *once we get rid of that America hating apologist kissing enemy ass President.

Last best hope on Earth? Hope is not a strategy.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:20 AM   #618
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I can never comprehend the people who believe America is so great based on our liberties. Don't they realize we are not the only country in the world that has freedom of speech, voting rights, etc? Yes, there are many other countries that do not have those rights, but we are not alone in having them. The U.K. is not under a dictatorship, Canadians aren't silenced by their government, Germans can choose their leader, the list goes on.

Also, people who focus on our liberties seem to forget that not everyone had them for most our history. Native Americans, blacks, women anyone?
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:23 AM   #619
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I wish I could be that brainwashed. I hear ignorance is bliss.

And it's good to see Scalia is still out there proving time and time again that he truly is batshit crazy. He's always reminded me of those people who interpret the bible literally.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:23 AM   #620
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Who cares about those people-yay for white males.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:29 AM   #621
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Its rough for them, ya know. All the minorities/women are getting preference on the civil service tests these days and they don't get to live up to those childhood dreams of being firefighters and cops without a military service record.


Oh wait, that's not true at all.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:57 AM   #622
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if you guys don't agree that America is the best at everything ever, then you must hate America and everything it stands for.

that's how it works.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:11 AM   #623
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if you guys don't agree that America is the best at everything ever, then you must hate America and everything it stands for.

that's how it works.
While there are some people who truly hate America, not everyone who criticizes it hates this country. I think its because we see hypocrisy and ignorance going around to trump up patriotism and it doesn't make sense.

Not that I'm not seeing your point, Irvine, but I wanted to make my point clear.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:13 AM   #624
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if you guys don't agree that America is the best at everything ever, then you must hate America and everything it stands for.

that's how it works.
Should I start burning flags?


Man, I better start by buying an American flag then, cause I don't own one.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:18 AM   #625
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I can never comprehend the people who believe America is so great based on our liberties. Don't they realize we are not the only country in the world that has freedom of speech, voting rights, etc? Yes, there are many other countries that do not have those rights, but we are not alone in having them. The U.K. is not under a dictatorship, Canadians aren't silenced by their government, Germans can choose their leader, the list goes on.
When I asked INDY about how the Canadian society had disintegrated once gay marriage was legalized he actually pointed me to an article in which Michael Coren (a well-known homophobe and bigot - but I'm sure INDY doesn't know a thing about him) complained that his rights had been curtailed because there was an increase in complaints filed with the various provincial human rights tribunals in the wake of gay marriage being legalized. In other words, our country had gone to shit because gays started to insist that their rights be respected.

So you see, the real problem is that bigots can't be bigoted in public anymore.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:43 PM   #626
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Chris Kluwe posed for the cover of Out magazine, I don't know if any current NFL player has ever done that. Guess he's making a statement, and I think it's great that an athlete is that secure and confident in himself and his beliefs. He has a punter's body, not that there's anything wrong with that.



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Old 10-09-2012, 04:33 PM   #627
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I wish Kluwe punted for Philly. Not only does he seem like a cool dude, but we desperately need a competent punter.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:39 PM   #628
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It's silly to say that all of this was a direct result of the Constitution.
It's not silly at all. Our constitution cultivated rule of law, limited government and Judeo-Christian values. The American Dream exists because our society, above all others, fosters a view of aspiration, rather than envy, towards success. We prosper because of that. We are freer because we value liberty over equality of outcome. We are more tolerant because we have been from the outset a nation of E Pluribus Unum.
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And it's even sillier to use this as an excuse to argue for the infallibility of the Constitution. The Founders were not divinely inspired.
Who thought that? The Bible doesn't have an amendment process. (Mormons may have another view about that. ) The constitution does... for a reason.
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In many ways, the political system that they created has been and will remain a problem for the United States to overcome.
Not when the American people support you. Our system is supposed to move with deliberation and consensus. That's only a problem when you're an imperial president trying to move "forward" while the majority of the country is yelling "stop!!"
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Of course, in many ways, it's a fantastic document. I think "mediocre" may have been somewhat too harsh. For its time, it was an incredibly progressive, brilliant document. Certainly the best political system that had been devised. However, I do not believe that it deserves the sort of reverence that it often receives in the United States. Primarily, I really question the existence of states.
States are a vestige of our political past but thank God for them. They are part of the checks and balances of our system. Which begs the question, which state would be the model for the entire country?
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:58 PM   #629
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How do you think non-Americans react when they read something like this?
Depends on if they're educated or indoctrinated.

An educated person would not be threatened by facts -- would be able to articulate and defend the values and successes of his/her own country.

Those indoctrinated in cultural relativism and anti-Americanism... who cares?
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:03 PM   #630
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It's not silly at all. Our constitution cultivated rule of law, limited government and Judeo-Christian values. The American Dream exists because our society, above all others, fosters a view of aspiration, rather than envy, towards success. We prosper because of that. We are freer because we value liberty over equality of outcome. We are more tolerant because we have been from the outset a nation of E Pluribus Unum.
You have a rather simplistic understanding of American history, I'm afraid. But I'm guessing if you'd lived back in the 1840's you would have supported Manifest Destiny and States Rights no?



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Not when the American people support you. Our system is supposed to move with deliberation and consensus. That's only a problem when you're an imperial president trying to move "forward" while the majority of the country is yelling "stop!!"
The above response was too easy a retort. How about addressing this:

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To which I ask, so if that's the case, and we DO leave it to the people to make this decision, and it turns out they DO think the definition of marriage should be changed to include same-sex couples-which is becoming a more likely scenario given the support for same sex marriage continues to increase...what do the conservatives think should happen then in that instance?
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