Same Sex Marriage Thread-Part 2 - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-03-2012, 06:19 PM   #46
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Someone brought in the issue of equality vs liberty and someone else slyly accused another poster of homophobia without furnishing any evidence whatsoever. But, hey, it's FYM, after all.

So, with respect it doesn't belong in the Mitt Romney thread, the debate was being broadened out before I arrived - I decided to broaden it out further.


that's probably why you missed not just the point but the topic entirely. trying to point score when you don't even know where the goal is often backfires. but, hey, it's FYM, after all.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:42 PM   #47
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
that's probably why you missed not just the point but the topic entirely. trying to point score when you don't even know where the goal is often backfires. but, hey, it's FYM, after all.
I don't accept that.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:47 PM   #48
ONE
love, blood, life
 
digitize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dallas and around the Texas Triangle
Posts: 13,962
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy
Well, indeed. Created equal. Equal of opportunity - not of outcome.
To believe that there is even the slightest semblance of equality of opportunity in the United States is completely absurd. And the fact that many conservatives believe that these is one of the thing that irks me most about conservative economic reasoning. But that's another story.
__________________
digitize is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:49 PM   #49
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
I don't accept that.


still confused?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:51 PM   #50
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitize View Post
To believe that there is even the slightest semblance of equality of opportunity in the United States is completely absurd.
Indeed, and I have posted many, many threads drawing attention to the accretion of political and economic power to an elitist oligarchy - what is popularly, though wrongly, called the one percenters.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:54 PM   #51
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
still confused?
Everyone, I think, is confused except for the fanatics - they have the force of moral certainty on their side. And you're not an obsessed single issue fanatic Irvine, are you?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:03 PM   #52
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:38 AM
i have almost 25,000 posts. what do you think?

let me know when you've got the context for "equality" sorted, then we can continue.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:05 PM   #53
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,255
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
You do know that tens of millions of Christians every week do indeed line up to serve the homeless, right? Feed the hungry? Pray with the sick? Advocate on behalf of health care for the poorest amongst us? Are you positive that a few of the people who lined up as a calm, peaceful protest about an issue they care about deeply aren't also lining up regularly to feed the poor and homeless?
That's great. But, as noted, why do I not hear Huckabee or Bachmann talking about that stuff? Why do I only hear from them when they're talking about some "assault" on our country's "Christian values", why do I only hear from them when they're out making big protests against homosexuality?

I don't understand how someone can have compassion for the poor and homeless, but can't seem to extend that same compassion to gay people who are being denied their civil rights.

I don't understand why gay people getting married bothers some out there so much. I don't understand why they think it's their place to dictate someone else's love life, to tell them who they can and cannot marry. Who died and gave you the power to make such a decision?

And I'm STILL waiting to hear how any person who values the concept of personal liberty and small government interference can then turn around and restrict, or support government officials who can restrict, other people's lives like this. Please tell me how exactly one is able to reconcile those beliefs, 'cause it's a real mystery to me.
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:08 PM   #54
War Child
 
Caleb8844's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Local Time: 12:38 AM
As a Christian-conservative, I don't think there should be gay marriage, yet I think gay people should be allowed to marry.
__________________
Caleb8844 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:12 PM   #55
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,858
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844
As a Christian-conservative, I don't think there should be gay marriage, yet I think gay people should be allowed to marry.
So you don't agree with a practice because of your religion but respect the fact that this country cannot be governed according to a certain segment's personal beliefs? I like this concept.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:13 PM   #56
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:38 AM
i've grown increasingly impatient with the notion that legal equality for same-sex couples is a complex or troubling or confusing issue. it isn't.

what is complex or troubling or confusing is disabusing people of the deeply held conviction that there is something inherently wrong with gay people. that their relationships must necessarily be distinguished and degraded. and in fact some of these people are, themselves, gay who have internalized homophobia to such an extent.

issues about procreation, parenting, religious freedoms, "it's not who you are but what you do" etc. these are smokescreens for the real issue which is accepting difference -- and historically despised difference -- as having equal worth.

it's not confusing at all. we make ourselves confused to live with our prejudices.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:15 PM   #57
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
As a Christian-conservative, I don't think there should be gay marriage, yet I think gay people should be allowed to marry.


and i can live with this.

you're allowing your religion to dictate to you those of us who are equal to you, and those of us who aren't. i assume if your religion said there shouldn't be interracial marriage, you'd feel the same way.

but you don't think that your religious convictions override other people's civil rights, and therefore you feel that in a free society we sometimes have to live with things we disagree with because it isn't society's job to endorse and coddle our every last belief.

again, i can live with this. no one has to like me. but i do have to be treated equally.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:17 PM   #58
War Child
 
Caleb8844's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
So you don't agree with a practice because of your religion but respect the fact that this country cannot be governed according to a certain segment's personal beliefs? I like this concept.
Exactly. And, as for the religion argument, I just finished ranting about "Bible-believing Christians" using Leviticus as a basis for their arguments. If I hear one more person reference that, there will be blood. It's ignorant, and it makes me look ignorant by association.

But yes, there are arguments in the Bible against homosexuality. There are arguments against lying as well. Arguments against premarital sex and divorce abound, as well.

The minute the government begins to legislate morality is the minute morality loses worth, and the people lose freedom.
__________________
Caleb8844 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:19 PM   #59
War Child
 
Caleb8844's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
and i can live with this.

you're allowing your religion to dictate to you those of us who are equal to you, and those of us who aren't. i assume if your religion said there shouldn't be interracial marriage, you'd feel the same way.

but you don't think that your religious convictions override other people's civil rights, and therefore you feel that in a free society we sometimes have to live with things we disagree with because it isn't society's job to endorse and coddle our every last belief.

again, i can live with this. no one has to like me. but i do have to be treated equally.
I think you're no better or worse than I am. If we legislated based on Biblical principles, I'd have many restrictions on my liberty, as well. I'm glad we don't.
__________________
Caleb8844 is offline  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:32 PM   #60
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
As a Christian-conservative, I don't think there should be gay marriage, yet I think gay people should be allowed to marry.
I can respect this stance. It gives me hope that the next generation of conservatives will look back and see that this generation was wrong.

I hope that someday you identify yourself as a Christian, rather than a Christian-conservative, the conservative movement has done far too much damage perverting the message of Jesus.

Maybe another day we can have a discussion about "homosexuality" in the Bible and how if you study the origins a little further you understand that it has nothing to do with homosexual relationships of today.
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com