Same Sex Marriage Thread-Part 2 - Page 37 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-22-2012, 01:59 PM   #541
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Your aggressive hostility to values informed by religious teachings which have been passed on and tested for thousands of years as opposed to values informed by pop culture and emotions is... puzzling to me.
You're getting really boring, but I'd just like to point out that, despite what you think, religion did not invent morality. There would be no human race if not for an ingrained, innate sense of morality; one that had been instilled in us though evolution long before religion reared its ugly head. I don't need religion to be a morally good person. Apart from the fact that the morality of your religion can often times to called into question, I shudder to think what kind of morally corrupt person you'd be without Christianity to hold your hand along way. But then again, maybe without it, you'd finally be able to think for yourself and come to truly moral conclusions on issues like the one in this thread
__________________

__________________
Jive Turkey is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 02:41 PM   #542
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
You're getting really boring, but I'd just like to point out that, despite what you think, religion did not invent morality. There would be no human race if not for an ingrained, innate sense of morality; one that had been instilled in us though evolution long before religion reared its ugly head. I don't need religion to be a morally good person. Apart from the fact that the morality of your religion can often times to called into question, I shudder to think what kind of morally corrupt person you'd be without Christianity to hold your hand along way. But then again, maybe without it, you'd finally be able to think for yourself and come to truly moral conclusions on issues like the one in this thread
No surprise that you would again confer meanings that I haven't stated. Where have I ever said one needs religion to be a morally good person? I haven't.

You're not bored with arguing with me J.T. because you aren't arguing with me. You're arguing with a twisted, prejudiced abstraction of your own construct.

Quote:
I shudder to think what kind of morally corrupt person you'd be without Christianity to hold your hand along way.
That makes two of us. But apparently you can't accept that an individual may be a better person because of their religion. Or that, even with all its faults, evils and transgressions, religion is a huge net plus on civilization.
__________________

__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 03:02 PM   #543
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500

You're not bored with arguing with me J.T. because you aren't arguing with me. You're arguing with a twisted, prejudiced abstraction of your own construct.
Hahaha ok Indy
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:03 PM   #544
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500

Eugenics did, and could only, originate from the Left and progressivism. The notion that a human suffering from severe disabilities is of lesser moral worth and therefore less desirable to society is incompatible with both Christianity and constitutional conservatism.

This is among the more offensive, nasty posts in this thread.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:05 PM   #545
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
iron yuppie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,448
Local Time: 03:02 AM
This argument about whether religion, by which I assume people mean Abrahamic religions, has been a net positive or negative on society, seems to recur frequently.

I will say this. From a strictly historical perspective, the adoption and spread of Christianity in Europe and the Near East had little to no influence on people's day-to-day lives. I'll just assume that we are talking about morality as basic decency in terms of altruism, respect, and peacefulness. The crime rate in Europe before and in the ten or so centuries after Christianity had been adopted is basically the same. Wars are still constant. The charities that "pagan" temples and, later, monasteries and convents provided are more or less constant. Out-of-wedlock births, if one sees that as a moral issue, are also very common in both eras. Poverty rates and economic stratification are essentially the same as well.

All this is to say that the effect of Christianity on the day-to-day behavior and economic circumstances of an ordinary person is negligible. You could argue that the Christian era sees greater localization of social and economic life under bishops and other church figures, leading to less interaction with and therefore less understanding of other cultures, but even that can be attributed to the ruin of infrastructure after the Germanic invasions of Rome rather than anything intrinsic to Christianity.

Religion as the western world knows it has been neither a positive nor negative influence on society. It has been a net zero in measurable terms. And I stress "measurable," because obviously there is no way to calculate how a perception of a happy afterlife might have influenced someone psychologically. But regardless of how thoroughly people believed in that afterlife, it does not seem to have influenced their treatment of each other in any substantial way.
__________________
iron yuppie is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:57 PM   #546
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 05:02 AM
Good points, iron yuppie.
__________________
Pearl is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 07:15 PM   #547
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
This is among the more offensive, nasty posts in this thread.
Because it's true?

Oh let me guess, because I correctly point out that eugenics sprang from the progressive movement here in the U.S and Europe 100 years ago... I think, what? That anyone that calls themselves a progressive today trips blind people and illegally parks in handicapped spaces.

You'll have to explain what's offensive and nasty about my post.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 07:41 PM   #548
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500

Because it's true?

Oh let me guess, because I correctly point out that eugenics sprang from the progressive movement here in the U.S and Europe 100 years ago... I think, what? That anyone that calls themselves a progressive today trips blind people and illegally parks in handicapped spaces.

You'll have to explain what's offensive and nasty about my post.

Look at your "could only have come" part of your post.

People who live in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 07:53 PM   #549
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,271
Local Time: 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
That anyone that calls themselves a progressive today trips blind people and illegally parks in handicapped spaces.
What the hell is this?

Please tell me you're joking. You have to be. Otherwise, seriously, what in the world is the deal with your attitude here?
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:19 PM   #550
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,730
Local Time: 01:02 AM
He's asking Irvine if that's what he (Irvine) thinks he (Indy) is saying.
__________________
corianderstem is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:30 PM   #551
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,271
Local Time: 03:02 AM
Okay, clearly misread, then. Apologies.

For my part, I'd say one big offensive thing about your post, INDY, is the idea that eugenics is a thing that "could only originate" from the left/progressive side of the political spectrum.

This whole discussion is messed up, though, really. Same sex marriage has no ties to the topics of incest or eugenics, so it's really insane that we've gotten to the point where we're discussing the latter two topics in this thread.
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 09:55 PM   #552
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
For my part, I'd say one big offensive thing about your post, INDY, is the idea that eugenics is a thing that "could only originate" from the left/progressive side of the political spectrum.
It couldn't originate from Christians or the Right because we're anti-science.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 10:55 PM   #553
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,271
Local Time: 03:02 AM
Okay, gotta give you that one. Touche .
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 11:11 PM   #554
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 05:02 AM
I think it's unfair to associate every liberal/progressive with eugenics. I'm sure there are plenty that are against it. I mean, I get the impression that Indy is doing that, apologies if he isn't.
__________________
Pearl is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 11:17 PM   #555
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
iron yuppie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,448
Local Time: 03:02 AM
I don't know a single person who supports eugenics, regardless of their political leanings.
__________________

__________________
iron yuppie is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com