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Old 09-18-2012, 10:37 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Other than the fact that, until this generation, both have been excluded from marriage by all cultures, religions and governments.
So...Jerry Lee Lewis' situation was...what, then?

Please. For the love of all that is good, just STOP already.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:41 PM   #512
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Roman social and cultural history. I actually did my MA on sexual ethics in the Roman Empire and early Christian movements. PhD topic is perceptions of suffering and pain in the Roman world.
Awesome. I enjoy 'researching' Roman history (and other cultures) on my own, but I'm far from an expert. I really need to start keeping notes. I collect antiquities (nothing crazy. I'm not wealthy) and when I get something new, it usually leads to hours of reading about the era it's from.

I don't quite understand your PhD topic. Can you expand on that a bit? Sounds interesting

(Sorry for the derail folks. I won't ask a bunch of questions)
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:26 PM   #513
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That's cool, JT, I'd like to read more about that, too. Certainly more interesting and less infuriating than what's been discussed recently.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:28 AM   #514
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I know this thread is mainly about marriage equality in the US, but I'd just like to say I am utterly disgusted with the Australian House of Representatives today. 42-98 against marriage equality. The ALP split 38 for, 26 against - most notably current PM Julia Gillard and previous PM Kevin Rudd both voted against. The lone Green obviously voted for, the independents voted 3 for and 2 against, and all 70 Liberal/National MPs voted against. That number includes Malcolm Turnbull, who said he would have voted for if the Liberal Party had allowed a conscience vote ... but the Liberal Party does not expel MPs for crossing the floor, so he could've crossed and voted against the party line.

There is an essentially identical bill before the Senate that is an outside chance of passing, but even if it does pass, it'll die in the House.

Meanwhile, New Zealand yet again shows itself more ahead of Australia. Its gay marriage bill passed its first reading with a majority of every party voting for it except the incoherent populists of New Zealand First (who only hold eight seats). Even the Nationals voted for it 30-29, with that thirty including the current PM. Numbers may be weakened when it comes back out of committee but it should still pass its second and third readings. Few of Labour's 30 for votes are likely to drop and all 14 Greens will vote for, so the bill simply needs to find another ~17 votes amongst the other 77 members to pass. Shouldn't be a problem.

So for the first time in a while on political matters, I'm proud to be a Kiwi and disgusted to be Australian.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:12 AM   #515
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The ACL, meanwhile, seem to believe that all gays and all those who support them in their fight for marriage equality, is over - MR: ACL welcomes end of marriage debate | Australian Christian Lobby

Idiots
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:42 AM   #516
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Haha, morons. By the end of the year, probably at least one state will have passed a marriage equality bill.

Will be interesting - and infuriating - to see any subsequent legal challenge and whether it is upheld as constitutional or not.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:50 AM   #517
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I can't wait for the day about a year on from when it's legalised here, and all the people who are currently rallying so hard against it realise that they haven't been affected in the slightest, and society as we know hasn't crumbled and burned.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:09 AM   #518
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Yeah, I'm still waiting here in Iowa to see that apocalyptic scenario play out that all the anti-gay marriage folk seem to think will occur. It's been about three years or so and yet...nothing. Sort of like the people who keep insisting every few years or decade or so that the world will come to an end soon.

Good move on New Zealand's part, and bad move on Australia's. Hopefully the pro-gay rights side will soon win out there.

Quote:
“I would like to thank the Opposition for keeping its election promise and for all those members of Labor who, as a matter of conscience, voted to ensure that marriage remained between a man and a woman,” Mr Wallace said.
Yeah, actually, denying people equal rights means you don't have a conscience, moron. It also means you don't have a heart.

God, I wish these people would just grow up and get over themselves already.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:20 AM   #519
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I can't wait for the day about a year on from when it's legalised here, and all the people who are currently rallying so hard against it realise that they haven't been affected in the slightest, and society as we know hasn't crumbled and burned.
I must admit I'm worried that a legal challenge to a state legalising gay marriage will succeed. The commentary that I've read indicates that it would stand a good chance of succeeding. See, for instance Explainer: can Tasmania legalise same-sex marriage?

Short version: if a state marriage law conflicts with federal law, the federal law wins unless the high court is willing to employ a very careful reading of the Marriage Act. Our states are not as powerful as American states in this regard.

Tassie will probably pass a marriage equality bill - an amazing proposition given it didn't even decriminalise homosexuality until 1997 - and then things will get really interesting. Most other states either have or will soon have a marriage equality bill before their parliament, but Tasmania's by far progressed the furthest and will probably be the test case.

(I kind of see this going the same way as the Northern Territory legalising euthanasia in 1997; I recognise that's not a perfect analogy due to the greater control the federal parliament has over territories than over states, but I think it's valid.)
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:32 AM   #520
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Incidentally, in light of Tassie not decriminalising homosexuality until 1997, that makes Bob Brown's career all the more astounding. He's lived in Tassie since 1972 ... and announced he was gay in 1976. He was Tasmania's first openly gay member in 1983, federal parliament's first in 1996, and the first openly gay leader of an Australian political party - and never mind the law of his home state.

Now that's courage and determination.

Australia could do with more politicians like him, less moral cowards like Gillard and Turnbull, and absolutely no moral detritus like Abbott, Boswell, and Bernardi.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:49 AM   #521
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Yeah we lost a good one in Bob Brown. Was heartwrenching hearing him talk about electroshock therapy in the 70s on Q&A.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:09 AM   #522
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unless I missed it somehow
it seems Indy still hasn't recognized that homosexuality is between 2 consenting adults in a relationship based on equality
unlike incest, bestiality, polygamy an whatever other nonsensical comparisons

of course society benefited from heterosexual relationships when humankinds welfare profited from an increasing population
it seems a safe assumption to me this is the main reason it became part of 'our culture' to 'promote' heterosexual relations, it was deemed in our best interest

just as it is in our best interest now not to discriminate against a section of our pooulation, creating a divide not based on any rational argument

if anyone really doesn't see the vast difference in homosexuality and incest than they have little to no grasp on the fundamentals of nature, psychology or reason
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:09 AM   #523
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I must admit I'm worried that a legal challenge to a state legalising gay marriage will succeed. The commentary that I've read indicates that it would stand a good chance of succeeding. See, for instance Explainer: can Tasmania legalise same-sex marriage?

Short version: if a state marriage law conflicts with federal law, the federal law wins unless the high court is willing to employ a very careful reading of the Marriage Act. Our states are not as powerful as American states in this regard.

Tassie will probably pass a marriage equality bill - an amazing proposition given it didn't even decriminalise homosexuality until 1997 - and then things will get really interesting. Most other states either have or will soon have a marriage equality bill before their parliament, but Tasmania's by far progressed the furthest and will probably be the test case.

(I kind of see this going the same way as the Northern Territory legalising euthanasia in 1997; I recognise that's not a perfect analogy due to the greater control the federal parliament has over territories than over states, but I think it's valid.)
Fingers crossed for the best. Today's downvote and the bogan reaction to the Islamic riots has me monumentally depressed this week.

Seeing so many posts on Facebook calling for all Muslims to be deported, or even atomic bombs dropped over the entire middle east.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:02 AM   #524
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Wish the right the world over would adopt David Cameron's position: "I don't support gay marriage in spite of being a conservative; I support gay marriage because I am a conservative."
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:32 AM   #525
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Meanwhile, New Zealand yet again shows itself more ahead of Australia. Its gay marriage bill passed its first reading with a majority of every party voting for it except the incoherent populists of New Zealand First (who only hold eight seats). Even the Nationals voted for it 30-29, with that thirty including the current PM. Numbers may be weakened when it comes back out of committee but it should still pass its second and third readings. Few of Labour's 30 for votes are likely to drop and all 14 Greens will vote for, so the bill simply needs to find another ~17 votes amongst the other 77 members to pass. Shouldn't be a problem.
yeah, i heard john key saying he had no problem with allowing same sex marriage to be legalised, despite saying exactly the opposite when he was campaigning for pm. but hey, it just goes to show how times have changed (or if you want to be cynical, how desperately he wants to be re-elected when that time comes).
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