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Old 09-17-2012, 02:02 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by Diemen

Maybe I should have rephrased that to say that we should get back to legitimate discussion of same sex marriage, and not let the misguided (at best) comparisons take over the discourse. I can think of quite a few things that could be brought up in comparison to gay marriage that really don't have a legitimate place in the discussion, unless we're just trying to get a rise out of people.
I am not at all saying I think it is a legitimate comparison. I AM saying that some here may think it is and to brush them aside seems hasty to me.

INDY wasn't trolling, is my point. He seems to feel like there is a comparison. Let's talk about it. If you think it's an ugly thing that is incomparable, then say so. But pushing it away seems, to me, to be counterproductive.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:24 PM   #437
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several posts had begun to discuss incest, the merits of a potential brother/sister coupling. that's quite distinct from homosexuality, and as such belongs in another thread.

posts like Sean's or others where the comparisons INDY was drawing between an illegal activity and a sexual orientation were legitimate because they kept the subject at hand in mind in the posts.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:46 PM   #438
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I think it would be tricky to discuss incest separately from homosexuality. While I agree that incest deserves its own thread, because it may derail this one, I can see homosexuality being brought up now and then. I say that because someone may argue two homosexual siblings could be allowed to have sex because no pregnancies would happen.

You know what? Maybe we should discuss not just incest, but where exactly do we draw the line in what should be acceptable these days in terms of sexuality and marriage. Before, there was a brief discussion on polygamy because of what happened in Brazil and that could've derailed this thread. So perhaps a general sexuality thread?
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:55 PM   #439
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I'll ask again, what if the incest is homosexual in nature? No fear of inbreeding and their orientation can't be denied anymore than other homosexuals can it?
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:11 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by INDY500
I'll ask again, what if the incest is homosexual in nature? No fear of inbreeding and their orientation can't be denied anymore than other homosexuals can it?
There are hundreds if not thousands of brothers out there lining up to marry their brothers.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:21 PM   #441
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I'll ask again, what if the incest is homosexual in nature? No fear of inbreeding and their orientation can't be denied anymore than other homosexuals can it?
First off, as noted, I personally don't really care, so long as everyone's of legal age and consenting it's none of my business.

Second, you did read Sean's post, didn't you? If not, I suggest you do that.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:26 PM   #442
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I am not at all saying I think it is a legitimate comparison. I AM saying that some here may think it is and to brush them aside seems hasty to me.

INDY wasn't trolling, is my point. He seems to feel like there is a comparison. Let's talk about it. If you think it's an ugly thing that is incomparable, then say so. But pushing it away seems, to me, to be counterproductive.
Thank you for saying I'm not trolling, frankly I have better use for my time than that.

My whole point is no one truly believes, as the applause line at the Democratic Convention went, that "we all have the right to marry no matter who we love." I don't believe that and I don't think anyone here truly believes that. It defies logic.

So, if we all believe in some restrictions (demarcation lines) on the practice on marriage because, even though unfair to certain individuals, society as a whole is the better for it. How is it only "hate" can lead someone to reason that line be drawn on the exclusionary-side for same-sex marriage instead of the inclusionary-side.

To put it another way, Tom and Steve agree that child brides, arranged marriages, no-fault divorce, polygamy and incest are wrong but Tom is also against same-sex marriage. Now Steve is "spinning the world forward" but Tom is a "hater." It defies logic.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:27 PM   #443
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History and present day has relatives married to each other here in the states, and guess what? They are ALL straight.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:30 PM   #444
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I was fine with most of your post, except this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
To put it another way, Tom and Steve agree that child brides, arranged marriages, no-fault divorce, polygamy and incest are wrong but Tom is also against same-sex marriage. Now Steve is "spinning the world forward" but Tom is a "hater." It defies logic.
It only defies logic if you believe Tom has a legitimate reason to be against same-sex marriage.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:33 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
To put it another way, Tom and Steve agree that child brides, arranged marriages, no-fault divorce, polygamy and incest are wrong but Tom is also against same-sex marriage. Now Steve is "spinning the world forward" but Tom is a "hater." It defies logic.
Ergh. *Deep breath*

Once. Again. Pay attention: Abuse. Lack of consent. Those are the reasons why people would oppose things like incest, polygamy, arranged marriages, and child brides.

And none of those have anything to do with one's actual orientation. You are not born a polygamist, child bride or arranged marriage isn't your orientation. Denying same-sex couples the right to marry is tied to not supporting an actual part of who they are.

This is not difficult to understand. It really isn't.

The quote about "we all have the right to marry no matter who we love" was clearly referring to any relationships that involve consenting adults.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:39 PM   #446
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of all the retardation in this post, this point might be the most retarded. Apart from being wrong and completely uninformed (honestly Indy, spend at least 5 minutes to research before spewing your bullshit), how hilarious is it that part of his defense for incest is "well, it doesn't show up for several generations, so fuck it"?
I actually did some research. Now it's your turn. Reread my post and please direct me to a website that contradicts what I said. I certainly don't wish to disseminate any false information, especially when it comes to genetics or medical science.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:41 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500

Thank you for saying I'm not trolling, frankly I have better use for my time than that.

My whole point is no one truly believes, as the applause line at the Democratic Convention went, that "we all have the right to marry no matter who we love." I don't believe that and I don't think anyone here truly believes that. It defies logic.

So, if we all believe in some restrictions (demarcation lines) on the practice on marriage because, even though unfair to certain individuals, society as a whole is the better for it. How is it only "hate" can lead someone to reason that line be drawn on the exclusionary-side for same-sex marriage instead of the inclusionary-side.

To put it another way, Tom and Steve agree that child brides, arranged marriages, no-fault divorce, polygamy and incest are wrong but Tom is also against same-sex marriage. Now Steve is "spinning the world forward" but Tom is a "hater." It defies logic.
I have a hard time taking logic lessons from the author of such drivel.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:44 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
I was fine with most of your post, except this:

It only defies logic if you believe Tom has a legitimate reason to be against same-sex marriage.
That's what a civil society should be able to discuss -- without the pejoratives. The merits of the arguments.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:46 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by INDY500

That's what a civil society should be able to discuss -- without the pejoratives. The merits of the arguments.
So when will you start?
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:54 PM   #450
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So, if we all believe in some restrictions (demarcation lines) on the practice on marriage because, even though unfair to certain individuals, society as a whole is the better for it.
I really don't expect an answer to this, but how exactly would society be better if you kept gay people from marrying? And comments like this betray your deep seated bigotry
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