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Old 08-03-2012, 04:55 PM   #31
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I think sometimes he just likes to rile everyone up.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:55 PM   #32
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I'm starting to think INDY either knows he's wrong to be against LGBTs and is afraid to admit it because he'll realize all that he believes in would be wrong too, or he harbors some very strong homophobia and won't voice them here or else he'll be banned. That's my theory anyway.


it's an opportunity to feel sanctimonious. it's been twisted to the point where my being gay is a violation of religious freedom.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:18 PM   #33
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I resent the Boston "values" being in quotes. We do have values here- because they're not yours Indy,they're not any less valid. Guess what, I have Christian values too. Happen to think they're pretty good.

I agree that equality is liberty, don't think you can have true liberty without it.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:21 PM   #34
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Equality is at worst downright evil and at best counterproductive.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:21 PM   #35
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it's been twisted to the point where my being gay is a violation of religious freedom.
It is quite interesting how the talking points have changed since this has become a national debate. For years they tried to sell us the "it will destroy the sanctity of marriage" and then they realized that they were doing that from within, so then they just argued a vague moral standing, but soon got frustrated with the fact that they had nothing but a distorted religious reason and that wouldn't stand. So now we have the "you're violating my religious freedom" argument.

It would almost be comical if you forgot about how their ignorance actually effects the rights of humans in this country.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:24 PM   #36
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Equality is at worst downright evil and at best counterproductive.
Just meant to stir? I have a hard time any decent human being actually believes this shite.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:27 PM   #37
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Well, indeed. Created equal. Equal of opportunity - not of outcome.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:30 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
I'm starting to think INDY either knows he's wrong to be against LGBTs and is afraid to admit it because he'll realize all that he believes in would be wrong too, or he harbors some very strong homophobia and won't voice them here or else he'll be banned. That's my theory anyway.
What does "against LGBTs" mean?
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:30 PM   #39
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I think created equal means you don't have to earn it.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:39 PM   #40
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I think created equal means you don't have to earn it.
Yes, and it should, but I am trying to get across the difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. I think that gay marriage can be easily encompassed into the quote above from the constitution. But sometimes the left seem to want to legislate to make everyone equal in every way. That's why I start objecting when the word "equality" is thrown around.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:59 PM   #41
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Equality is at worst downright evil and at best counterproductive.

we're talking about legal equality.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:01 PM   #42
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Yes, and it should, but I am trying to get across the difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. I think that gay marriage can be easily encompassed into the quote above from the constitution. But sometimes the left seem to want to legislate to make everyone equal in every way. That's why I start objecting when the word "equality" is thrown around.

i don't think this point has anything at all to do with what's being talked about.

we're talking about equality in the eyes of the law for same sex couples.

perhaps you meant this for the the Mitt Rmoney thread?
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:17 PM   #43
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i don't think this point has anything at all to do with what's being talked about.

we're talking about equality in the eyes of the law for same sex couples.

perhaps you meant this for the the Mitt Rmoney thread?
Someone brought in the issue of equality vs liberty and someone else slyly accused another poster of homophobia without furnishing any evidence whatsoever. But, hey, it's FYM, after all.

So, with respect it doesn't belong in the Mitt Romney thread, the debate was being broadened out before I arrived - I decided to broaden it out further.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:17 PM   #44
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Yes, and it should, but I am trying to get across the difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. I think that gay marriage can be easily encompassed into the quote above from the constitution. But sometimes the left seem to want to legislate to make everyone equal in every way. That's why I start objecting when the word "equality" is thrown around.
You're talking more about the Republican class warfare type of "equality". You're falling for a boogey man.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:19 PM   #45
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we're talking about legal equality.
And I'm talking about how when we conflate equality with liberty, it's a slippery slope to forcing everyone to be equal, by hook or by crook. And there's a lot of historical examples for this, let's face it.
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