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Old 10-27-2011, 06:52 PM   #76
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A couple from a series of graphics just released by Pew, charting changes in public opinion on same-sex marriage over the last decade:





Not surprised that white evangelicals would be the one religious demographic among which support for SSM has not only not grown, but declined. I am though a bit puzzled that Gen X would be the one age demographic for which this is true--why would that be?

(Also, am I the only one in here to whom it's news that my parents apparently belonged to something called the "Silent Generation"? Never even heard the phrase before...)
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:07 PM   #77
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I am glad that I'm on the right side of history, along with a solid majority of my generation. I consider myself both Catholic (from heritage and family) and agnostic (from the most accurate description of my personal beliefs) so I'm also glad to see both of those are moving to the right side of history as well.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:24 PM   #78
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Not surprised that white evangelicals would be the one religious demographic among which support for SSM has not only not grown, but declined. I am though a bit puzzled that Gen X would be the one age demographic for which this is true--why would that be?


with white evangelicals, we're seeing a broader resistance to modernity in general, so not surprising.

as someone born during the Carter administration, making me either among the very youngest of the Gen X or the eldest of the Gen Y/Millennials, i have no idea. likely a data glitch? perhaps civil unions are the slacker way to compromise without much struggle? perhaps the effects of their divorced parents have forced them to reconsider recommending marriage to anyone? let me go search for the "Singles" soundtrack and see if i can find an answer ...

on a more serious note, the only possible thing i can think of is that there is a small but clear voice within the gay community that is indifferent to marriage rights, though they don't actively oppose them. there are some who feel as if the push for legal equality sucks up valuable resources and political capital that could be better used in other areas. and, further, as a generation that grew up being able to be out of the closet, but yet not thinking of it self as no different than straight people (as Gen Y gay kids do), there might be a non-conformist impulse, as articulated recently by Rachel Maddow:

Quote:
"I feel that gay people not being able to get married for generations, forever, meant that we came up with alternative ways of recognizing relationships," she explains. "And I worry that if everybody has access to the same institutions that we lose the creativity of subcultures having to make it on their own. And I like gay culture."

Rachel Maddow: How This Wonky-Tonk Woman Won TV - The Hollywood Reporter
i do think that gay people have found creative way to create families, especially as my circle of friends now extends to people in their 40's and 50s. there is something kind of cool about that, and tremendously empowering about being able to live beyond the boundaries of what is and what is not acceptable. and perhaps a generation raised in divorce and famous for cynicism is cynical about marriage and it's intrinsic worth, and especially about it as a cure-all for deeply entrenched homophobia and the corresponding feelings of depression and worthlessness that virtually all gay people suffer at some point during the coming out process.

but, likely just a statistical error.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:50 PM   #79
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perhaps civil unions are the slacker way to compromise without much struggle?
Oh, that's gold. Well, great post. You're right, the actual decline might be a fluke, but even then, look at the size of the increase among other age cohorts; it seems undeniable that at the very least there's some kind of tenativeness coming through there, an initial strong distinction from the Boomers that doesn't quite take off for some reason.
Quote:
and, further, as a generation that grew up being able to be out of the closet, but yet not thinking of it self as no different than straight people (as Gen Y gay kids do), there might be a non-conformist impulse, as articulated recently by Rachel Maddow:
...
there is something kind of cool about that, and tremendously empowering about being able to live beyond the boundaries of what is and what is not acceptable. and perhaps a generation raised in divorce and famous for cynicism is cynical about marriage and it's intrinsic worth, and especially about it as a cure-all for deeply entrenched homophobia and the corresponding feelings of depression and worthlessness that virtually all gay people suffer at some point during the coming out process.
That does make sense. And I suspect you'd probably find the "no different" difference broadly mirrored in straight Gen Xers' attitudes versus straight Ys', too--rejection of the uglier stereotypes still prevalent among older generations, but a lingering skepticism towards the idea that the love, the longing, and the potential they hold are really the same. Likewise for the skepticism (cynicism?) towards marriage in general...I mean, I'm married, and not a product of divorce, but even so, were I to think about it generationally, yeah, I do sometimes have the perception that both Boomers and Ys are all sappy-chirpy, "Love makes a family" and stuff, whereas I'm all faux-hardass No, commitment, discipline, and sacrifice make a family, stop kidding yourself.* (And the funny thing is, I suspect some of my older gay friends, with the 'unconventional' families and communities they've built together over the years with not a little tears, loneliness, and stiff upper lip in the process, I suspect they might be the first to agree with that sentiment.) But those "corresponding feelings"--moving towards abolishing forever the necessity of undergoing those, yes, that would be the single most important progress I could think of.

[ * ETA -- DH drily suggests we're only half-right, that it may be more to the point that Xers are just now hitting the age where large numbers of us are getting divorced ourselves and are thus deeply soured on marriage-related anything, whereas Millennials haven't even gotten around to marrying yet and as for Boomers, well, they got divorced 20+ years ago so have long since worked through it... ]
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:37 PM   #80
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AnnArbor.com, Oct. 31
Quote:
Andries Coetzee has already started looking for a new job. The University of Michigan linguistics professor is afraid he’s going to lose benefit allowances for his domestic partner of seven years, who is in remission after an exhausting battle with soft tissue sarcoma, a rare type of cancer. A recurrence is an all-too-real risk, and good health care is essential, argues Coetzee, who has been with partner Gary Woodall for seven years.

But domestic partner benefits for state employees—including staff at Michigan’s 15 public universities—are in jeopardy due to a bill that seeks to save approximately $8 million a year by eliminating the benefits. House bill 4770 was approved by the Michigan House of Representatives in September in a 64-44 vote and is currently under consideration by the state senate.

Coetzee, who moved to Ann Arbor from South Africa ten years ago, said he is frustrated that rights for same sex couples in Michigan appear to be “moving in the opposite direction” of most communities...“I question my decision to come to Michigan,” Coetzee said. When Coetzee accepted a job at U-M, he also turned one down at New York University. “I chose Michigan because it just seemed better. But now New York just made same sex marriage legal and now in Michigan…they want people like my partner to not get treated.”

U-M Latin professor Sara Ahbel-Rappe said that if bill 4770 passes there will likely be a large exodus of professors who leave the university. “It’s a total slap in the face. It tells me that I don’t deserve the same consideration” as heterosexual couples, she said. “People will leave.” Ahbel-Rappe and six other professors authored a letter to Gov. Rick Synder asking him not to sign bill 4770 if passed by the senate. The letter calls the bill discriminatory and says it will negatively affect staff recruitment at the university.

U-M officials are also concerned about the bill’s effects. Nearly all of U-M’s competitors offer benefits to same-sex partners. So do most Fortune 500 companies. “These benefits are important for the successful recruitment and retention of our top-flight faculty and staff,” said Cynthia Wilbanks, U-M’s vice president of government relations. “We’re in competition on a lot of levels, this would be an added competitive disadvantage.” Wilbanks said the university is actively lobbying politicians in Lansing. Will it be enough? “If the bill gets to the senate floor there will be a vigorous debate..." she said, "but over a long career, I have learned not to speculate.”

...Scott Dennis has been a librarian at U-M for 14 years. His partner of 10 years originally moved to Ann Arbor after being lured by the school's domestic partner benefits (that partner now runs his own business). Dennis says, if passed, the bill would be an insurmountable blow to U-M. “I am concerned for the university as a whole,” Dennis said. “It would be a really damaging blow to the university’s reputation as a fair and humane employer. I think it would cause us to lose faculty and never get them back.”

"It is not the responsibility of taxpayers to support the roommates and unmarried partners of public employees," [Rep. Dave] Agema [R-Grandville] said in a statement.
Yeah, "roommates" who don't have the option to get married and hence "deserve" the usual spousal benefits, because your state doesn't allow that.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:32 AM   #81
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I'm just relieved and happy that Kim Kardashian's right to a 72 day marriage remains fully granted and protected by law in all states

Making all kinds of money off of it and getting all kinds of gifts and freebies (even though you'll deny it) is so very sanctified too.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:42 PM   #82
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:10 AM   #83
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I'm just relieved and happy that Kim Kardashian's right to a 72 day marriage remains fully granted and protected by law in all states

Making all kinds of money off of it and getting all kinds of gifts and freebies (even though you'll deny it) is so very sanctified too.
if she could marry women too
she would probably be divorced four or five times by now.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:13 AM   #84
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Maybe that will be next

I guess her marriage at age 19 lasted three years, so she did much better then. Maybe this whole divorce thing is a publicity stunt too. Who knows, but whatever way you slice it it makes a mockery of marriage. But she has every (legal) right to.

She says she's a hopeless romantic and falls in love hard. She's not the only one who does that, but maybe it's time to take some time to find out what truly knowing someone and still being "in love" is. What a relationship is completely apart from "romance".

And living real life outside of cameras-that might help too.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:21 AM   #85
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Kim Kardashian =
"No one is so useless as to not be able to serve as a bad example."


I hope this is another chink in the armor in the sacredness of marriage. Unfortunately, marriage is the very loose term we use for government-sanctioned, legal unions. There is no reason that gay marriage is not a simple case of equal protection under the law.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:31 PM   #86
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Conan O'Brien Officiates Late Night's First-Ever Gay Wedding, Makes Us A Little Weepy

The show, normally broadcast from Los Angeles, has been spending a week in our fair city. And as long as they're here in the state of New York, why not take care of some business? Specifically, Conan announced he had been ordained and would marry Scott Cronick, the show's costume designer and his longtime partner David Gorshein.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:37 PM   #87
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Dear Kim,

My mother brought me up to write my thank you notes on Crane's Informal Notes with good penmanship -- but in this case I'm hoping a blog post will suffice to extend to you my deep appreciation, profound thanks and tremendous gratitude.

I am not sure you can appreciate just what a gift it is to have the extraordinarily well-publicized news of the end of your hysterically hyped marriage come the very week our congressional leaders are set to begin debating the Respect for Marriage Act on Capitol Hill.

Seriously. As a marriage equality activist, I cannot thank you enough for your gift of the stunning example of how the gender of the couple saying "I do" clearly has absolutely nothing to do with respect for the institution of marriage. It is a gift -- I promise you -- that will keep on giving.

As we continue to work for family values that value all families and a protect-marriage movement that protects all marriages, we will have your example to add to Britney Spears' 55-hour marriage, Larry King's eight marriages and Newt Gingrich's three (just to name a few) as proof positive that marriage needs protection, all right -- but not from gay and lesbian couples who want to pledge to live together until death do them part.

We will have another great example to contrast to those couples building lives, families and a future without the 1,138 federally protected rights that you and Kris Humphries enjoyed for the 72 days you were married to each other, rights like social security, inheritance, taxation, hospital visitation and immigration status, just to name a few.

We will have another opportunity to talk about the values that make up a marriage; values that transcend the gender and sexual orientation of the couple; values like fidelity, monogamy, mutual affection and respect, careful, honest communication, and love; the values that we in the Episcopal Church have held up as the standards we hold for relationships blessed by our church.

And it will give me the chance to talk about the marriages I know about that actually embody all those traditional values that were so utterly lacking in your $10-million nuptial debacle, like Alec and Jamie, gay men who have been together for 10 years, married since 2008, new parents to a 5-year-old son adopted out of the foster care system, a son they are raising in a stable, loving home, bringing him to Sunday School every Sunday, and teaching him to write thank-you notes on Crane's Informal Notes with good penmanship.

So thank you again, Kim. As we work without ceasing to secure for Alec and Jamie and their family the rights you and Kris threw away after 72 days of marriage, I hope you will know how deeply grateful we are for the "on a silver platter" gift you gave us this week as we head into Senate judiciary hearings on the Respect for Marriage Act and look ahead to the repeal of DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act). Honestly, we just can't thank you enough.

Sincerely,

The Reverend Canon Susan Russell
All Saints Church, Pasadena
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:46 PM   #88
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the public should stop hounding the Kardashians
just let them live their lives in private.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:33 PM   #89
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the public should stop hounding the Kardashians
just let them live their lives in private.
Well done, deep.
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:20 PM   #90
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