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Old 05-14-2012, 08:08 PM   #616
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there is speculation that Abraham Lincoln may have been homosexual

I can not think of the second one.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:16 PM   #617
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James Buchanan.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:20 PM   #618
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ok

I just found this, James Buchanan

James Buchanan: America's First Gay President? | The Bilerico Project

He was president 1857-61, right before Lincoln, the problem with these claims are that they were not out at all.
Lincoln had a wife and children. So for the majority, they were not gay.



edit to add

most gay Americans are not 'officially' gay. Because they are not out.
We need to have a world where all people have no issues with people living their lives out in the open.

Gay marriage, will do a lot, to take us in that direction.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:40 PM   #619
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You shouldn't have to be "out". It shouldn't matter.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:04 PM   #620
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Gay marriage, will do a lot, to take us in that direction.
I dunno man, we live in a society where toddlers that run around in just their pullups are considered to be dirty and sexual and children must be clothed all of the time (recently read something about how "wrong" it was for parents to let four-year-old girls go to the beach shirtless).
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:13 PM   #621
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Come on, guys. The only thing Lincoln was rumored to be was a vampire hunter.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:23 AM   #622
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Last night on one of our political talk shows, a member of the crowd asked the right-wing MP Joe Hockey why he is against same-sex marriage, and why he thinks he can be a parent but MP Penny Wong, who is in a lesbian relationship, cannot. Her reply was stunning.

Penny Wong v Joe Hockey over Gay Marriage on Q and A (14--05-2012) - YouTube
I don't get how people still seem to think if there's a mother and father in the house and they're married that somehow this automatically means your kids will grow up "better". How many more examples of that NOT always being true do people have to see before they get it?

Go, Penny .
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:31 AM   #623
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Penny seems pretty great.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:34 AM   #624
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She's one of about three pollies in this country with a bit of dignity.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:48 AM   #625
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The other two are Tony Windsor and Julia Gillard. I shit you not.

(yes, yes, I know there's Bob Brown, but he's either retired or rapidly on the way to exiting the scene)
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:03 AM   #626
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Gillard has been pretty underwhelming though. And I'm a big Turnbull fan.
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:50 AM   #627
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I wish I'd learnt a bit more about Aussie politics when I was. Over there for a month. But that was when Wills and Kate got engaged, so that sucked up a lot of air time. And I spent a good week below water, so I suppose all worked out.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:54 AM   #628
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Gillard has been pretty underwhelming though. And I'm a big Turnbull fan.
I nominated Gillard for grace under fire. She is no policy visionary, but someone has to keep the show going, and the present environment is more toxic than any I can recall in recent years. After Kevin Rudd's Eva-Peron turn leading up to the February spill that (hopefully) ended his political career, I start to wonder if we all didn't dodge a bullet there. This is a relatively recent change in my view.

A dysfunctional news media, in what will probably be its last major act before extinction, is actively working for an unwarranted election.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:01 AM   #629
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The other two are Tony Windsor and Julia Gillard. I shit you not.

(yes, yes, I know there's Bob Brown, but he's either retired or rapidly on the way to exiting the scene)
Gillard's level-headed, even, and reasonable response to the frankly disgusting level of abuse that has been slung at her has been superhuman. I can't help but respect her for that alone. Regardless of anyone's opinion on whether Gillard or Rudd should be the ALP leader, I think we can probably all agree that under this sort of constant barrage of aggression from the political sewer, Rudd would've cracked long ago. Cracked spectacularly.

Bob Brown is a massive fucking champion and a huge loss to the dignity of the Australian political scene when we're at what might be our lowest ebb. I've been pretty impressed with Adam Bandt, though.

As for Penny Wong, it's great that the change of ALP policy on gay marriage means she can speak her mind now. I know it would've had negative repercussions for her, given the requirement for party discipline within the ALP, but I wish she had defied the former policy before it was changed. It was agonising watching her contort her words to avoid expressing her own opinion while also avoiding actually endorsing the former party position.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:13 AM   #630
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She's one of about three pollies in this country with a bit of dignity.
She certainly gave a well thought reply.

So I wonder what this guy thinks about rape victims, who raise a child all by themselves, or people where either mother or father has passed away. There's no mother and father there either. Same level as gay people or suddenly 'a different situation'?

And.. one thing I don't get. How do we go from gay marriage to children immediately? Last time I checked you don't need to be married to have children. There's so many morons out there who have children, I'd say a gay couple makes the choice after thinking it through quite a bit, so they are much more responsible parents than morons who let their kids do about anything because they are too selfish to spend time with them!
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