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Old 05-09-2012, 04:53 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
you think? or was it all just more chess playing?

i have no idea.
I am looking at 3 different ways


1. Obama just did the right thing not the easy thing, better to be a one term-er with integrity, that a 2 term-er without a backbone.

2. this got away from him, his people were marching ahead without him,
better to run in front, as the leader.


3. this was planned and has been completely orchestrated, his crack team have done a lot of internal polling. This is his best and strongest move. The Ron Paul, libertarian supporters are the most passionate people in this years election, they have good numbers, and with a strong candidate like Gov Johnson from NM, they could be the deciders, just like the Green party supporters were in 2000. Obama makes his claim for the passionate youth vote, doesn't cede it to the Libertarian.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:11 PM   #452
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Now the youth vote will have to decide whether this or legalized pot is more important!
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:24 PM   #453
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they know Johnson can't win
and Obama can
many said there is no difference between Gore and Bush
many say there is not much difference between Wall Street Obama and Wall Street Romney, well now there is one clear delineation.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #454
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so here is the (one) list of toss-up states

Quote:
Arizona (11)
Colorado (9)
Florida (29)
Iowa (6)
Missouri (10)
New Hampshire (4)
North Carolina (15)
Ohio (18)
Virginia (13)
I can see where pro gay marriage can hurt
and no real clear cases where it is a plus, except NH, some may say Iowa, but when the people vote
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...election_N.htm
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:32 PM   #455
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If Obama coming out for gay marriage is going to cost him this election, well we are more f'ed than we ever thought possible.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:41 PM   #456
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:00 PM   #457
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When President Obama was born his parent's marriage was illegal in 22 states.

The world only spins forward.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:20 PM   #458
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When President Obama was born his parent's marriage was illegal in 22 states.


we should remember this whenever people talk about the "will of the people" or "states rights" or "0-33."
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:23 PM   #459
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In N C it is legal to marry your first cousin, today.
As long as the cousins are opposite sex.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:59 PM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511
it's poetic that the first black president becomes the Abraham Lincoln of gay rights.

i think this is red meat for both the bases, however, in the places where it could really affect GOP turnout will likely be in states Obama was already going to lose. it won't change anyone's mind about Obama, it just inspires people for whom this issue is important to come out and vote. if NC and VA are close again, perhaps it is the difference. but this is also months in advance of
What does that Lincoln comment mean?

I think I read philsfan saying he would register to vote if Obama came out in support.

It's heartwarming.

Santorum's response talked about the "real world consequences". I tweeted him asking what they would be, and am just waiting for a reply. Will post back when I get one.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04

What does that Lincoln comment mean?
The implication is that Obama is speaking in favor of a minority in much the same way that Lincoln did for African Americans, so Irvine is equating the two.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:34 PM   #462
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I will expound when in off a mobile device. I am not comparing slavery to SSM. It was a turn of phrase that I came across an thought was nice.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:38 PM   #463
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I didn't say that you equated slavery and SSM, rather that the two presidents had opportunities to speak on behalf of a minority and took them.

If you meant something else, please do say so, I didn't mean to misrepresent you.

We who know the historical context of Obama's remarks notice the obvious political gains/risks involved in it, but I think this will be a moment placed in history books and remembered quite fondly without a great deal of cynicism. I also fully agree that this is more likely to unite his base than significantly alienate swing voters. Overall, a good move and I'm proud of the man.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:47 PM   #464
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Not at all. I was just clarifying for myself, nothing to do with your post, which was pretty accurate.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:53 PM   #465
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Got this "email" from Obama, which explains it well:

Quote:
I've always believed that gay and lesbian Americans should be treated fairly and equally. I was reluctant to use the term marriage because of the very powerful traditions it evokes. And I thought civil union laws that conferred legal rights upon gay and lesbian couples were a solution.

But over the course of several years I've talked to friends and family about this. I've thought about members of my staff in long-term, committed, same-sex relationships who are raising kids together. Through our efforts to end the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, I've gotten to know some of the gay and lesbian troops who are serving our country with honor and distinction.

What I've come to realize is that for loving, same-sex couples, the denial of marriage equality means that, in their eyes and the eyes of their children, they are still considered less than full citizens.

Even at my own dinner table, when I look at Sasha and Malia, who have friends whose parents are same-sex couples, I know it wouldn't dawn on them that their friends' parents should be treated differently.

So I decided it was time to affirm my personal belief that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry.

I respect the beliefs of others, and the right of religious institutions to act in accordance with their own doctrines. But I believe that in the eyes of the law, all Americans should be treated equally. And where states enact same-sex marriage, no federal act should invalidate them.
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