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Old 05-09-2012, 02:12 PM   #421
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Very sad this morning for my two Aunts who live in NC. They retired down there and have been the stable relationship I have tried to model my marriage of 19 years on. THey have been with each other since 1970. Very disappointing morning indeed.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:01 PM   #422
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Obama supports gay marriage, but also supports state's right to decide for themselves.


http://news.yahoo.com/obama-announce...-marriage.html

Just in case ABC News pulls the clip again, here is a screen grab -
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:07 PM   #423
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on the NPR hourly news blip, they just said Obama said, 'Gay marriage should be legal." I am sure there will be video and audio of this.

I understand the principle of being on the 'right side of history".

I also understand how elections are won and lost. I think we all would have been better served if everyone just let this evolution complete itself about 5-6 months from now.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:19 PM   #424
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there is a link to the video, and prepared statement here

Obama declares support for gay marriage - Yahoo! News


Obama has always had my respect, this was not a slip, this is a well thought out, well reasoned statement. It reflects my personal feelings and beliefs.

But, being a pragmatist, I am concerned that with the very few swing vote states in this election,
most all being in places where this moral stand will push more people opposed to it to get out and vote.

I hope I am wrong.




(Will one apathetic, beer drinking regular from Pa, put down the joystick and actually register to vote now? and perhaps even exercise it? )
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:22 PM   #425
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It's hard to see anything in an election year as not politically motivated, but knowing he will very likely lose votes with this (whereas I don't know that anyone for SSM would vote for the other guy if Obama stayed mum), it feels more like he's saying "you know what, I don't care if I lose some votes - this is the right thing to do."

Yeah, he could have said something sooner, and yeah, you could argue it's just political waffling, but it doesn't make it any less important.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:26 PM   #426
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To quote from Harry Potter, there comes a time when you have to choose between what is right and what is easy.

I don't think that this will cost Obama the election - if he loses, it will be for economic reasons.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:30 PM   #427
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My general opinion is that the loss in votes from this are a drop in the ocean compared to the tumultuous waves of the economy. And there's greater upside from nailing down base enthusiasm.

This certainly guarantees nothing in the short term, but it does ensure we will never see another major Democratic presidential candidate opposed to marriage equality.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:31 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post

Yeah, he could have said something sooner, and yeah, you could argue it's just political waffling, but it doesn't make it any less important.

yeah, he could have said something later, if Biden did not blow this thing wide open

did Biden lose this election, more voters in MA, NY and CA don't matter at all, those starts were tied up

all Biden had to say was, "States are deciding this for themselves, that is how this is now."
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:33 PM   #429
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Not all youths live in MA, NY and CA.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:33 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post


To quote from Harry Potter, there comes a time when you have to choose between what is right and what is easy.

I don't think that this will cost Obama the election - if he loses, it will be for economic reasons.

It has been right to say this for at least 20 years, if not before then.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:36 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by mobvok View Post
Not all youths live in MA, NY and CA.
and again WA was never in doubt, I could list a few more.

FL, VA, NC, OH, PA, MO states like these are where this is a net lost at election time.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:40 PM   #432
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It has been right to say this for at least 20 years, if not before then.
Absolutely.

I think that Obama is a political animal. If he thought that this would cost him the election, he wouldn't have done it. Call me cynical.

The reason that I don't think this is a big deal is that in today's troubled economic times, both domestically and globally, people are more concerned about their jobs, their salaries, their purchasing power, kids' education costs and so on than social issues like gay marriage. Those for whom gay marriage is at the top of their priority list would NEVER have voted for Obama because I would bet the majority of them already think the supports it as it is. And they have a candidate perfectly willing to pander to them on the other side of the aisle.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:44 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by Popmartijn View Post
It looks like there's a small majority supporting this at the moment (see: Half of Americans Support Gay Marriage ), but it's only barely a majority. Plus the support is slightly down from last year.

More important is the breakdown of the support. According to this article First Read - Is Obama's gay marriage stance all about suburban voters? some of the most important groups for Obama's re-election are still split on it.
What I don't get is why does living in the suburbs matter so much?

Those groups are split, yes, but the support is still increasing within them. As long as there's any sort of an uptick in those numbers, it gives me hope. Though the overall number going from 53% down to 50% is odd.

Course, also keeping in mind here that that's just basing the statistics off those who actually responded to the poll. What the millions who didn't respond think, we don't know.

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What doesn't make sense is that it's not like SSM was legal or pending legality. It was never legal, it's legality isn't an issue.
Good point. But hey, can't look for logic in an illogical situation.

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This amendment absolutely proves one of the main contentions in the Prop 8 brief -- that those against SSM are motivated by animus towards a long despised minority.
Oh, absolutely. You could throw every last sane, logical, reasonable pro-gay argument at them and they won't care. They just don't like gay people for some bizarre reason and will always see them as some sort of "threat" to...something. They're just cruel, prejudiced people, plain and simple.

And on that note, here's hoping people brush off those idiots in the One Million "Moms" thing again.

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Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Very sad this morning for my two Aunts who live in NC. They retired down there and have been the stable relationship I have tried to model my marriage of 19 years on. THey have been with each other since 1970. Very disappointing morning indeed.
I'm sorry for them .

1970? Wow. It's like they seem to care about and love each other and want to be committed to each other and stuff! Shocking, huh?

to Cori's post, too. Good to hear Obama's stance made loud and clear.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:48 PM   #434
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and again WA was never in doubt, I could list a few more.

FL, VA, NC, OH, PA, MO states like these are where this is a net lost at election time.
Opposition to same sex marriage also generally tracks support for conservative policies in general. I am unpersuaded that a meaningful/substantial volume of single-issue voters exist for Obama to lose.

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The people unhappy about the president's gay marriage position can take some comfort in the fact that it no longer involves evolution.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:03 PM   #435
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President Obama has given an interview to ABC, he is supporting gay marriage. I see that already posted here. So good for him for doing so in spite of what it might cost him. I admire that.
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