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Old 05-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #406
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In regards to marriage vs children... One of the happiest couples I know have been together for 23 years. They're not married and they have two kids. Marriage and children do not always coincide.

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Support for gay marriage is continuing to increase in this country. I think it would benefit the Obama adminstration as a whole to show their support-I can't see how this would hurt their political standing that much. It might have a few years ago (though, really, if I were president, I'd show my support no matter what the country at large felt about the issue), but now? I think it could be a huge boost to their campaign. Let the Republicans continue to look like the out of touch party they clearly are.
This is why I like Ron Paul. Note: I don't agree with/worship everything Ron Paul says. What I like is that I can actually respect him as a politician because he's stood by his opinions and he has never changed them for popularity's sake. We need more politicians that do that. Right now the presidential race is pretty much a bunch of guys saying what gets people to like them the most at that moment in time and then going back on their word during the pregnancy and making people mad. Well, no duh. When the standard is to lie, lie lie, what did you think was going to happen? Can't judge a president on his policies or beliefs when he's not even consistent with them.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:45 PM   #407
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Marriage is how adults sort themselves. Children come after the sorting.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:40 PM   #408
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While an Elon University poll of N C adult residents in March found two-thirds of the state as a whole supports either gay marriage or civil unions, polls suggest a majority of N C likely voters supporting the amendment.

"The Elon Poll is pretty consistent in indicating that people favor rights for gays and lesbians, but when you look at all the other polls that look at likely voters, they're all pretty consistent" in predicting passage, Peace College political scientist David McLennan said.

so we are still 20 -30 years away.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:47 PM   #409
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Strong majorities of black Americans oppose changing marriage rules to endorse same-sex couples.
I really, REALLY do not get this line of thinking.

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This is why I like Ron Paul. Note: I don't agree with/worship everything Ron Paul says. What I like is that I can actually respect him as a politician because he's stood by his opinions and he has never changed them for popularity's sake. We need more politicians that do that. Right now the presidential race is pretty much a bunch of guys saying what gets people to like them the most at that moment in time and then going back on their word during the pregnancy and making people mad. Well, no duh. When the standard is to lie, lie lie, what did you think was going to happen? Can't judge a president on his policies or beliefs when he's not even consistent with them.
I fully agree that he's about as consistent as it gets among politicians right now. Absolutely.

And I also agree with you about politicians in general. Whether it's a popular opinion or not, I just want a politician to stick to a viewpoint longer than an hour. I know that's wishful, idealistic thinking, but how the hell can I support, let alone vote for someone if I don't have the first clue what they truly stand for?

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the Obama team is worried about southern swing states like NC and VA, where a social issue like this might make a difference and motivate conservative christians who aren't too likely to be thrilled by a Romney candidacy to actually come out and vote.

hence, the tiptoeing.

in a mob rule referendum with minority rights up for vote, has the minority ever won?
It's so frustrating that we aren't advancing further on this issue because we have to worry so much about stuff like that. People were willing to take more of a chance with civil rights back in the '60s.

And on that note, by the way, just saw the results of the vote on gay marriage in North Carolina-that state can bite me. Probably not that surprising, the result, but still...argh .
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:21 PM   #410
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actually, the SSM movement has moved faster than any civil rights movement ever, including the Civil Rights movement of the mid-1960s. opinion polls have shifted dramatically, and it enjoys a tsunami of support among people under 30.

i'm not terribly surprised that a bible belt state voted to punish gay people (after all, NC once voted to ban interracial marriage) no matter the collateral damage to children of single mothers. there is a very ugly side to American Christianity, and if anything we should wonder how the rights of 4-5% of the population garnered nearly 10x that support.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:50 PM   #411
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actually, the SSM movement has moved faster than any civil rights movement ever, including the Civil Rights movement of the mid-1960s. opinion polls have shifted dramatically, and it enjoys a tsunami of support among people under 30.
Support and the like, yes. I was thinking more along the lines of, the South got integrated whether the people down there wanted it or not, so why people are hesitant this time around with gay marriage down in that part of the country, I don't know.

I'm thrilled at all the progress that has been made, absolutely. I think it's fantastic to see the tide turning so dramatically. It's just frustrating that we don't have our administration fully on board with this and that we still have to be cautious with some of this stuff. I know in the end that's a move that will probably bode well for the gay rights side in the long run, but it would just be so great to hear Obama state on TV that he is fully supportive of gay marriage being legal nationwide (I don't doubt he thinks something along those lines already privately, but it'd just be nice to hear it stated aloud).

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i'm not terribly surprised that a bible belt state voted to punish gay people (after all, NC once voted to ban interracial marriage) no matter the collateral damage to children of single mothers. there is a very ugly side to American Christianity, and if anything we should wonder how the rights of 4-5% of the population garnered nearly 10x that support.
Agreed, like I said, I'm not too surprised, either. Still frustrating, though.

Good question. It's truly sad how people can find ways to hide their bigotry and discrimination behind religion sometimes.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:54 PM   #412
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I'm so upset that NC voted against gay marriage - mainly because my sister who lives in that state voted for that amendment. She is so prejudiced, fearful and ignorant, she makes me sick. I mean, she sent a mass e-mail to the family talking about how excited she was that the ban went through. I didn't respond because I come from a conservative family, and I'm literally the only one who supports SSM, so I'm kind of bullied to keep my mouth shut. But I mention on Facebook that I support SSM, and she must see my postings from time to time. But does she care? Hell no. I love her as my sister, but I can't stand her bigotry.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to go somewhere to do that. We would've gotten into an ugly fight on Facebook and I would've been embarrassed that people would know I have a very homophobic sister.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:21 AM   #413
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I sympathize with you, Pearl. I have a staunchly conservative uncle who lives in that state. It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear he voted for that amendment, too (his son, aka, a cousin I used to love playing with when I was a kid, is also deeply, DEEPLY anti-Obama and has a habit of constantly posting anti-Obama material on Facebook. He's also the same guy who's getting unemployment benefits from the very administration he loathes. Ah, irony).

The fact that she seems so happy about this is truly disturbing. Yeah, we've told people their relationships are worthless! Woo! Party!

This news just further makes me proud to live in Iowa. We seem to get it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:49 AM   #414
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What doesn't make sense is that it's not like SSM was legal or pending legality. It was never legal, it's legality isn't an issue.

This amendment absolutely proves one of the main contentions in the Prop 8 brief -- that those against SSM are motivated by animus towards a long despised minority.

The idea that gay people are some kind of a threat to anyone, anywhere is ludicrous.

Unless you're a southerner, apparently. They're used to seeing threats everywhere.
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:09 AM   #415
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OOPS. I meant PRESIDENCY, not PREGNANCY.

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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
I fully agree that he's about as consistent as it gets among politicians right now. Absolutely.

And I also agree with you about politicians in general. Whether it's a popular opinion or not, I just want a politician to stick to a viewpoint longer than an hour. I know that's wishful, idealistic thinking, but how the hell can I support, let alone vote for someone if I don't have the first clue what they truly stand for?
Exactly! That's why I know it doesn't make a difference who gets elected. I know people that are always trying to talk about so-and-so's policies but I know it means nothing unless the person sticks to their word... which never happens. The major guys vying to the republican running have all changed their opinions from month to month and refused to keep one idea for more than a week or two. Obama is criticized for doing this when people fail to realize it's just politics. I can't remember a single president that didn't do something in office they swore they'd never do beforehand. They're all liars in some form or another, which sucks.


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I'm so upset that NC voted against gay marriage - mainly because my sister who lives in that state voted for that amendment. She is so prejudiced, fearful and ignorant, she makes me sick. I mean, she sent a mass e-mail to the family talking about how excited she was that the ban went through. I didn't respond because I come from a conservative family, and I'm literally the only one who supports SSM, so I'm kind of bullied to keep my mouth shut. But I mention on Facebook that I support SSM, and she must see my postings from time to time. But does she care? Hell no. I love her as my sister, but I can't stand her bigotry.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to go somewhere to do that. We would've gotten into an ugly fight on Facebook and I would've been embarrassed that people would know I have a very homophobic sister.
My dad and grandmother both send me radically political emails with really conspiracy-oriented crap about Obama and gay marriage (how it's all a ruse just to steal from the rich or whatever). I started replying to them and fact checking everything and sending them proof of just how biased and untrue the conspiracy theories were. They eventually stopped. They didn't like it, and it may have been a bit confrontational, but after the email regarding how trashy michelle obama was because her panty lines showed in some dress... I couldn't not respond anymore.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:55 AM   #416
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I'm so upset that NC voted against gay marriage
And it's not that they voted against gay marriage, but they voted for domestic violence too (if those partners aren't married). And some wonder why outsiders think that there are a lot of idiots in the USA...
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:18 AM   #417
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Support for gay marriage is continuing to increase in this country. I think it would benefit the Obama adminstration as a whole to show their support-I can't see how this would hurt their political standing that much. It might have a few years ago (though, really, if I were president, I'd show my support no matter what the country at large felt about the issue), but now? I think it could be a huge boost to their campaign. Let the Republicans continue to look like the out of touch party they clearly are.
It looks like there's a small majority supporting this at the moment (see: Half of Americans Support Gay Marriage ), but it's only barely a majority. Plus the support is slightly down from last year.

More important is the breakdown of the support. According to this article First Read - Is Obama's gay marriage stance all about suburban voters? some of the most important groups for Obama's re-election are still split on it.
Quote:
In other words, Obama's coalition of Democrats, black voters, women, Hispanics and urban voters (see below) are all in tact and in favor of gay marriage. But swing voters, especially suburban voters are still split -- as is Obama, apparently.
For most of the people who are in support of this, Obama's current stance isn't reason not to vote for him (Who should they vote for then? The person who is outspokenly against it?). Whereas for many of those who are still against it, a declaration from Obama now that he is supporting it would be a reason for them not to vote for him. So it's better for him to be silent on this subject until mid-November.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:13 PM   #418
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I met a woman a couple of weeks ago who grew up in MA and she now lives in North Carolina, she has lived there for many years now. I have been to SC numerous times but never to NC. She told me that NC is so different, that SC is the real "deep South" and NC is not.

I do my best not to stereotype people based upon that, I hardly think all Southerners are racists or bigots or homophobes. Nor do I think all Christians are, in fact I know they aren't. I just hate the whole idea of voting on anyone's right to marry, wouldn't want to do that at all.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:39 PM   #419
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I quickly looked through this ad in the paper Sunday and I didn't even notice



ABC News

By Abby Ellin
May 3, 2012



When JCPenney last heard from One Million Moms, the “pro family advocacy” organization was threatening to boycott the national retail chain for refusing to fire openly gay spokeswoman Ellen DeGeneres.

“By jumping on the pro-gay bandwagon, JC Penney is attempting to gain a new target market and in the process will lose customers with traditional values that have been faithful to them over all these years,” OMM, a division of the American Family Association wrote on its website.

But JCP refused to budge, and the Moms, overwhelmed with so many other issues, had no choice but to move on.

But now they are back and JCP is once again their target–this time for showing a happy female couple in its May catalogue. And how do we know the women are a couple? Because, as OMM notes, “On pages ten and eleven, under the title “Freedom of Expression,” you’ll find “Wendi and her partner Maggie and daughters” and again “Wendi, daughters Raven and Clover, and partner Maggie” in text. In the picture both women are wearing wedding bands.”

Last time the Moms contacted JCP’s corporate office, they were given the brush off. So now they are encouraging concerned customers to call or visit their local store managers. But they urge kindness “when you ask them to tell corporate that they should remain neutral in the cultural war.”

In an email statement, JCPenney said that “We want to be a store for all Americans. In celebration of Mother’s Day, we’re proud that our May book honors women from diverse backgrounds who all share the heartwarming experience of motherhood.”
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:53 PM   #420
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I met a woman a couple of weeks ago who grew up in MA and she now lives in North Carolina, she has lived there for many years now. I have been to SC numerous times but never to NC. She told me that NC is so different, that SC is the real "deep South" and NC is not.
Yeah NC was never Deep South...Mountain South yes, at least the western portion of the state, then the eastern part has a distinct Old South feel, but it's definitely not the Deep South. As with Virginia there can be pretty huge social and cultural differences between urbanized areas, like the Research Triangle or even Asheville, and the rural areas around them. SC though was always Deep South; lots of retirees and especially military retirees there, too.
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