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Old 02-03-2012, 10:55 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
good points. i think North American -- and especially in the US -- liberals tend to romanticize Europe as a bastion of liberalism, and to some extent that is true. we don't see the kind of influence of religion in Europe as we do in the US, and it appears as if "social issues" aren't nearly the identity flashpoint as they are over here. however, Europeans are in many ways *culturally* more conservative, in the ways that Americans are religiously more conservative. i think one becomes the same as the other, in practice, and it's great to get a more continental perspective as FYM is *so* heavily North American (with the occasional UK/Ireland/Aussie/Kiwi perspective).
I think you're right. Europe is not as socially liberal (we have to be careful when we use "liberal") as many think.
About the Church influence in conservative behaviours, it depends on the country.

For example, it's been said that this regression in the spanish laws that Rajoy is doing has been having a huge pressure of the Catholic Church. The same in Portugal for the end of national holidays - yes, the portuguese government ended with the commemoration of the day that Republic was implanted, with the justification that we need to be more productive (forgetting that we're some of those who work more hours per week) - it had negociation with the Catholic Church.
In Portugal and Spain, the influence of the church depends on the government. It has less influence when the PS (Portugal) and the PSOE (Spain) are in the Government, but it has waaaay more influence (and they serve as justification for many things) when PPD/PSD+CDS/PP (Portugal) and PP (Spain) are there.

Another example is Greece. When a new Government comes, the cerimony has the presence and the guide of representants of the Orthodox Church (see? not catholic, but still conservative).

But, for instance, countries like France, or Belgium or the scandinavian countries don't have half of the influence the religion has here.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:57 PM   #212
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Pastor: Boycott Starbucks Over Gay Marriage - KGMI-AM

Pastor Steven Andrew of USA Christian Ministries predicted that the Seattle-based coffee giant could lose 80%of its customers if Christians get their coffee elsewhere.

ELL OH ELL. Good luck with that, buddy.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:48 AM   #213
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this is pretty much the most satisfying demolition of the anti-SSM forces i've come across.

Up Close for Feb. 5, 2012 | Video | 7online


important to watch because it also touches on the birth control and health care issues regarding the Catholic Church in other threads.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:46 PM   #214
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That just makes me angry.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:50 PM   #215
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it's good to argue with idiots like Brian Brown in order to show people that they are, in fact, idiots.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #216
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I'm glad that he was able to keep his composure and make rational arguments the entire time.

That lady calling it a great debate was so grating.
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:08 PM   #217
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if you want to get mad, read this:

One Town's War on Gay Teens | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Quote:
In April, Justin came home from school and found his mother at the top of the stairs, tending to the saltwater fish tank. "Mom," he said tentatively, "a kid told me at school today I'm gonna go to hell because I'm gay."

"That's not true. God loves everybody," his mom replied. "That kid needs to go home and read his Bible."

Justin shrugged and smiled, then retreated to his room. It had been a hard day: the annual "Day of Truth" had been held at school, an evangelical event then-sponsored by the anti-gay ministry Exodus International, whose mission is to usher gays back to wholeness and "victory in Christ" by converting them to heterosexuality. Day of Truth has been a font of controversy that has bounced in and out of the courts; its legality was affirmed last March, when a federal appeals court ruled that two Naperville, Illinois, high school students' Day of Truth T-shirts reading BE HAPPY, NOT GAY were protected by their First Amendment rights. (However, the event, now sponsored by Focus on the Family, has been renamed "Day of Dialogue.") Local churches had been touting the program, and students had obediently shown up at Anoka High School wearing day of truth T-shirts, preaching in the halls about the sin of homosexuality. Justin wanted to brush them off, but was troubled by their proselytizing. Secretly, he had begun to worry that maybe he was an abomination, like the Bible said.

Justin was trying not to care what anyone else thought and be true to himself. He surrounded himself with a bevy of girlfriends who cherished him for his sweet, sunny disposition. He played cello in the orchestra, practicing for hours up in his room, where he'd covered one wall with mementos of good times: taped-up movie-ticket stubs, gum wrappers, Christmas cards. Justin had even briefly dated a boy, a 17-year-old he'd met online who attended a nearby high school. The relationship didn't end well: The boyfriend had cheated on him, and compounding Justin's hurt, his coming out had earned Justin hateful Facebook messages from other teens – some from those he didn't even know – telling him he was a fag who didn't deserve to live. At least his freshman year of high school was nearly done. Only three more years to go.

He wondered how he would ever make it.
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:22 PM   #218
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Holy hell.

I'm really pleased that, despite going to a conservative university, homosexuality is almost universally accepted here. It comforts me to know that it really is simply an issue of older people being bigots. This issue is simply our generation's civil rights thing. It's not political so much as it's generational. This campus is very divided politically when it comes to issues of the economy or foreign policy. But not gay rights.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:07 PM   #219
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Yay!

Congrats, California. Welcome to the equality club. We hope you enjoy your stay.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:08 PM   #220
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My Twitter is saying Proposition 8 has been declared unconstitutional and I am thrilled. This offsets the misery Tom Corbett put me in this morning.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:18 PM   #221
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There are gonna be a whole lot of disappointed Mormons.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:21 PM   #222
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This is truth:
Quote:
Proposition 8 served no purpose, & had no effect, other than to lessen the status & human dignity of gays & lesbians in California.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:24 PM   #223
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Cannot wait to hear the response from the supporters.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #224
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Cannot wait to hear the response from the supporters.
That sign still makes me irrationally angry. I still remember wanting to destroy every one I saw in '08.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:30 PM   #225
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This is a narrower win than many people seem to understand.

Still it is good.
Any loss is terrible, and any win however narrow or broad, is the right thing.
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