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Old 02-02-2012, 10:01 AM   #196
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I think for my 14th birthday I probably dreamed of getting a horse. Realistically a cute outfit or purse or something.



14-Year-Old Asks Maryland Lawmakers To Vote Down Same-Sex Marriage For Her Birthday | ThinkProgress


"Today is my 14th birthday and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote 'no' on gay marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents who are the same gender. Even though some kids feel like it's fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want any more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore. It's rather scary to think that when I grow up, the legislator or the court can change the definition of any word they want. If they can change the definition of marriage, then they could change the definition of any word. People have the choice to be gay, but I don't want to be affected by their choice. People say that they were just born that way, but I've met really nice adults who did change. So please vote no on gay marriage. Thank you."
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:17 AM   #197
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One of the most pathetic things I've ever read, and that's saying something coming from this forum regarding this subject.

I just want to know how she is affected by someone else's choice? I want that answered. Does it mean two guys she had a crush on, but now can't marry because they're gay....is that really affecting her, isn't that being selfish? I'd like to change the defintion of the word bitch to this girl's name I really, really hope this is just a vocal minority that's in it's last phase, much like the civil rights movement where it's always a bit louder and darker before it's over.

And the line "I've known people who've changed". Ok, let's have names and hear from them. I know some very nice black people, and they haven't robbed me yet!
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:58 AM   #198
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Awful.

Her mother is also a piece of work.

Kathleen Kositzky Crank | Facebook

She's been very active in the comments section of that article.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:56 AM   #199
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What was Indy saying about propaganda and indoctrination?
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:27 PM   #200
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Thanks for nothing, Cynthia Nixon!

Quote:
Kathleen Kositzky Crank

Recently a famous person admitted that her choice was indeed a choice. She took a lot of heat for it from the GLBT community . Can't remember her name right now.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #201
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I don't know, personally I'd choose to be optimistic where 14-year-olds are concerned and focus on the fact that they've got time yet to come into their own in their thinking. Kids that age can be earnest crusaders for a cause (sometimes almost comically so), and it's partly because they're beginning to understand what it means to make a case for your beliefs in a way kids just a couple years younger don't, and that's exciting. But it's rare for their political/ethical/theological/etc. views to be noticeably different from their parents'; their newfound abilities tend to get applied to defending what's familiar, they haven't actually made their belief systems their own yet; that takes time. Her thinking could still change dramatically, her parents' probably never will. What she's arguing is sad to hear, yes, but I wouldn't hold a 14-year-old fully accountable for it yet.
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:47 PM   #202
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"It saddens me that there aren't more Christians here tonight," she said.
Hey, lady. I'm sure there were butt-loads of Christians there. But you probably didn't recognize them, since they were in support of same-sex marriage. They probably looked like a bunch of heathens to you.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:08 PM   #203
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I think in another 30-50 years we'll have evolved on a social level where it won't matter about same sex marriage, and even christians will have changed enough to where they'll stop using the bible to call out that homosexuality as wrong/evil.....much like every christian chooses to ignore God's word of ordering anyone working on the Sabbath to be killed, or killing one's own family member if they speak of worshipping another God. Or on another level how slavery seems to be forgotten by most christians in their book.

So will homosexuality in time.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:17 PM   #204
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I sincerely hope so, BEAL.

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Hey, lady. I'm sure there were butt-loads of Christians there. But you probably didn't recognize them, since they were in support of same-sex marriage. They probably looked like a bunch of heathens to you.
I was going to say, how does one explain those people, then?

Wonder what Jesus "Love thy neighbor" Christ would think about this issue, too?

As for that thing from that 14 year old...uh...wow.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:49 PM   #205
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See that's one of my MANY, NUMERIOUS, INFINITE, issues with religion

We all are here 2000+ years later wondering what the son of God said. Times have changed, people and social norms have changed, yet we still clamour to a book and words written ages ago.

So would Jesus really still agree with the doctrine of the bronze age, or would even God itself be more evolved to how our culture works today? (my answer is there is no God, so therefore us humans have been responsible 100% for accepting lifestyles and gradually eliminating hateful bigotry, some more slowly than others)

It's going to be painful, but the next couple of decades we'll eventually get rid of this barbarian mindset, and then we'll focus on the next pointless social outrage!
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:00 PM   #206
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Yes a 14 year old's thinking can still evolve and change, of course it can. The world would be a much more depressing place if it couldn't, if it didn't.

Honestly at this point I can't even remember being 14, but I do believe that I was a much different person. What makes it really sad to me is that she's probably trying to please her mother more than anything, and I think it will be very tough for her when she has to live and exist and work among gay people and people who don't think that way. Even worse for her will be when she tries to separate from her mother and to think independently.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:23 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
I think in another 30-50 years we'll have evolved on a social level where it won't matter about same sex marriage, and even christians will have changed enough to where they'll stop using the bible to call out that homosexuality as wrong/evil.....much like every christian chooses to ignore God's word of ordering anyone working on the Sabbath to be killed, or killing one's own family member if they speak of worshipping another God. Or on another level how slavery seems to be forgotten by most christians in their book.

So will homosexuality in time.
I'm not so sure about it.

Here in Europe we're watching a very fast and dangerous regression in the mentalities exactly like in the 1930's beggining of fascist and authoritary regimes.
For example, this week, the new right-wing spanish government decided to get back with the abortion law (approved 10/12 years ago I guess) and that ended criminalisation and stigmatization of women who had to make abortions. The new law gets back to the early standards.
Another example is the freedom of speech and freedom of press which has been severely threatned in Hungary and there are new and strong sings ofit again in Portugal (and I've heard about it in Czech Republic too, for example, not sure).

Mariano Rajoy said that he wants to end the gay-marriage law in Spain too, which means that the same state that recognized the marriage between two people, now it wouldn't recognize anymore.
And I wouldn't be surprised if the present right-wing portuguese government did the same here.

Social progresses, at least here, are never granted, there are always periods of heavy regression, like constant a come-and-go thing.
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:11 AM   #208
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I should state/clarify that I was mostly talking about the US in regards to this social issue.

I am finding it facinating and more concerning that Europe is actually regressing back to a facism in order to deal with a lot of the religious and social upheaval that seems to be going on.
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Aygo View Post
I'm not so sure about it.

Here in Europe we're watching a very fast and dangerous regression in the mentalities exactly like in the 1930's beggining of fascist and authoritary regimes.
For example, this week, the new right-wing spanish government decided to get back with the abortion law (approved 10/12 years ago I guess) and that ended criminalisation and stigmatization of women who had to make abortions. The new law gets back to the early standards.
Another example is the freedom of speech and freedom of press which has been severely threatned in Hungary and there are new and strong sings ofit again in Portugal (and I've heard about it in Czech Republic too, for example, not sure).

Mariano Rajoy said that he wants to end the gay-marriage law in Spain too, which means that the same state that recognized the marriage between two people, now it wouldn't recognize anymore.
And I wouldn't be surprised if the present right-wing portuguese government did the same here.

Social progresses, at least here, are never granted, there are always periods of heavy regression, like constant a come-and-go thing.



good points. i think North American -- and especially in the US -- liberals tend to romanticize Europe as a bastion of liberalism, and to some extent that is true. we don't see the kind of influence of religion in Europe as we do in the US, and it appears as if "social issues" aren't nearly the identity flashpoint as they are over here. however, Europeans are in many ways *culturally* more conservative, in the ways that Americans are religiously more conservative. i think one becomes the same as the other, in practice, and it's great to get a more continental perspective as FYM is *so* heavily North American (with the occasional UK/Ireland/Aussie/Kiwi perspective).
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:45 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
I should state/clarify that I was mostly talking about the US in regards to this social issue.

I am finding it facinating and more concerning that Europe is actually regressing back to a facism in order to deal with a lot of the religious and social upheaval that seems to be going on.
The religious issue, forgive me for what I'm gonna say, is a fraud.
It's an argument of the Catholic predominance and dominance over others. Every one knows that Europe always was multi-religion (specially in the East, North and eastern mediterranean).

Europe is dealing with a house on fire which has nothing to do with religious issues. Europe's nightmare is the need to rewrite the Social State/Welfare construction because of today's and future's demography, as well as the rebirth of old mutual hatreds, old stigmas, old preconceptions against each other, old imperial/authoritary tendencies that never really died... Mix it with hate and rebellion in Eastern Europe against the old russian domination of communism, leading neo-fascist and extreme-right movements to gain lots of power over there. Mix it with the Chicago School that was a failure in South America and that led to dictatorships and extreme poverty from the 1960's to the 1980's... And here you have the closest (and resumed) photograph of today's Europe.
It's only History repeating itself, nothing more.
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