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Old 04-15-2005, 04:28 PM   #1
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Sainthood

Ok, while we wait for the Papal Conclave to begin, let's ponder the notion of sainthood. I'm not Catholic, and even though the Armenian Chruch has its own long list of saints, there has always been something distinctly pagan about the notion of people actually praying to saints for intercession with the Father, for healing, etc. (Is that how it works?) Saints are not be confused wth martyrs, of which there are plenty in all faiths, esp Islam, but Islam has no saints. They don't canonize. Only martyrs. And I guess it is easier to become a martyr in the Islamic faith, esp these days, but that's a different kettle of fish. There are martyyrs and MARTYRS.

Most saints are martyrs, but not all have died untimely/violent deaths.

So explain the concept of sainthood to me (it seems like a Christian adaptation of the venerable old Demigod tradition from pagan belief systems), what your criterion for canonizing someone would be, and how soon they should be canonized, depending on the criteria.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:31 PM   #2
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I think the Catholic Church would be better off canonising innocent aid workers that died in Iraq like Margaret Hassan instead of right wing zealots like Escriva the Opus Dei founder.

But don't ask me to explain the criteria they use I'll leave that to someone better informed.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:33 PM   #3
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The writers of the New Testament, in particular Paul, refer to all Christians as "Saints".
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
I think the Catholic Church would be better off canonising innocent aid workers that died in Iraq like Margaret Hassan instead of right wing zealots like Escriva the Opus Dei founder.
Yeah...I don't think a misogynist asshole like Escriva should be canonized.

As to whether he's in Heaven or not, I leave that to God; but he shouldn't be openly "commended" for his behavior. A cult leader has been made a saint, essentially.

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Old 04-15-2005, 04:49 PM   #5
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I'm not really sure how it works, either. One thing I do know is that they require documentation for miracles. One miracle is adequate for beatification, and two are required for canonization. Exceptions are made for martyrs. If I'm not mistaken, St. Maximillian Kolbe of Poland was canonized for martyrdom. He took the place of a condemned Jewish man who had a family in a concentration camp during WW II. We now have an adorable baby in my parish who's named after this saint.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:51 PM   #6
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One thing must be noted though is that the miracles must be performed after death (except in cases like Maximillian's,) which makes it a bit harder for any 'ol joe to become one.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:52 PM   #7
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Damn, that would be hard to pull off......
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:16 PM   #8
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Here's something out of my "Patron Saints" book. Canonization of saints was a rather late development in the history of the Church. Canonization began as a papal ratification of episcopalian canonization. The first canonization was in 973, when St. Udulricus was canonized. Things got more precise in the sixteenth century when the Sacred Congretation of Rites, a committee of cardinals and other officials, took over the work of recommending canonizations, drafting letters which were always approved and sent out by the pope.
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Old 04-16-2005, 07:50 AM   #9
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My lexicon says that the Greek word for "saints" refers to angels or to God's people on earth. In Acts 9, there are 3 references to "saints", and each one refers to everyday Christians like ourselves. And yet, in other places , it appears to refer to angels.
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:02 PM   #10
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I believe in these Saints as much as I believe in exorcisms. (not at all)

Karol Wojtyła brought back exorcisms.
The Catholic Church seemed to have moved away from them.

I am not an adherent to this religion and my beliefs should have no effect on Catholics.
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Old 04-16-2005, 04:16 PM   #11
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Thanks guys. I was looking for the roots of the canonization procedure. I find it interestng to know just how this started and when it became custom.

Verte, what a lovely story.A lot of the prominent saints in the Armenian Apostolic Church seem to have died at the hands of A) the Persians, or B) materialistic kings who were subsequnetly wiped out by God for their sinful ways. My favroite story was the one of Vartan and the Forty Martryrs of Nicodea who defied the orders of the pagan king of Armenia in 200-something to give up their faith and were killed by sticking them up to the neck in a frozen lake. The kid's Sunday schol books always had nice little drawings of this. *Brrr*.
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:46 AM   #12
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The Eastern Orthodox has some saints that we Roman Catholics don't have. A Queen of Georgia (obviously the one in the Caucasus, not the state in the U.S.), Tamar, was canonized in the Georgian Orthodox Church. She lived from 1160--1213. Today there are many girls in that part of the world named Tamara; they are named after her.
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