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Old 07-25-2003, 01:50 PM   #76
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both incidents, to me, break the contentious part of the geneva convetion. the geneva convention, as far as i know, doesnt offer an evil clause whereby the victims rights disappear because they have, during their life, attained a certain level of evilness.

so while both break the convetion, given other circumstances, it could be said the U.S. action is more justifiable. but im sure they recognized that and expected it.

edited to say i personally have no reason to believe the brothers are dead. in truth, what to believe, is somehow meaningless though i care.
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Old 07-25-2003, 01:56 PM   #77
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80sU2isBest:

1) Kusai was afik commander of the Republican Guards
Udai was commander of the Fedajins
-> they served their country, also i'm completely aware that their father was the dictator of this country.

2) Commanders aren't generally people who rape and slaughter - also it is not typical to show dead people who rape and slaughter worldwide on tv

Don't try to make it look like it was normal, it wasn't

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Old 07-25-2003, 01:57 PM   #78
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
They gave no one any dignity when they ruled with their satanic ways, so why should their dead corpses be given any dignity now that they are dead?
Because otherwise the people who treat their bodies with no dignity are stooping to their level.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:10 PM   #79
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Because otherwise the people who treat their bodies with no dignity are stooping to their level.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
I agree. I think my government is making a mistake. The important thing is that the Iraqi people know that they are dead. This isn't necessary, so I don't think they should have done it.
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:53 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
80sU2isBest:
2) Commanders aren't generally people who rape and slaughter - also it is not typical to show dead people who rape and slaughter worldwide on tv
Don't try to make it look like it was normal, it wasn't
Klaus
In point 2, I was contrasting the actions of soldiers and the Hussein boys, not soldiers and commanders.

What am I trying to make look like it's normal? I don't quite understand.
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:55 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Because otherwise the people who treat their bodies with no dignity are stooping to their level.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
Fizzing, do you really think that releasing the photos of the dead bodies of two vicious killers is stooping to the level of actually being a vicious killer? Really?
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Old 07-25-2003, 03:33 PM   #82
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Fizzing, do you really think that releasing the photos of the dead bodies of two vicious killers is stooping to the level of actually being a vicious killer? Really?



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Old 07-25-2003, 03:35 PM   #83
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Yes. They're realeasing the photos to prove they are dead, to show their intent to the rest of regime, and to lure family out of hiding. It's the same scare tactics that Saddam used.

And regardless of all that, as evil as these men were, they were still someone's father or uncle, brother, etc.

This administration has claimed the higher moral ground and to be working for good...but when killing their target they hold it up like a prize.
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Old 07-25-2003, 03:48 PM   #84
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So how exactly should the administration prove that the Hussien brothers are dead? They're dealing with a very skeptical Iraqi public who would rather see the bodies dragged through the streets as proof. I understand the objections and that two wrongs don't make a right, but what's the alternative?


*edited for glaring typos
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:02 PM   #85
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So how exactly should the administration prove that the Hussien brothers are dead? They're dealing with a very skeptical Iraqi public who would rather see the bodies dragged through the streets as proof. I understand the objections and that two wrongs don't make a right, but what's the alternative?


*edited for glaring typos
Dental records, fingerprints whatever they used to determine the true identity.

And acutally these bodies aren't going to be recognizable by the average citizen anyway. They just blood.
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:03 PM   #86
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The alternative is to believe whatever the government tells us....
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:15 PM   #87
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So how exactly should the administration prove that the Hussien brothers are dead? They're dealing with a very skeptical Iraqi public who would rather see the bodies dragged through the streets as proof. I understand the objections and that two wrongs don't make a right, but what's the alternative?
They could give the evidence from the dental records or whatever to the newspapers. Many Iraqis read newspapers. Even Iraqis who've seen the pictures aren't convinced because the pictures are so bloodied up.
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:18 PM   #88
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I suppose the question comes down to, "Why are they showing the bodies off, anyway?" The two leading aswers would be a) to prove their deaths to a skeptical Iraqi public and b)shameless grandstanding by Bush. I tend to think it's mostly a with a little bit of b. I imagine that those who believe showing the bodies is wrong think it's mostly or all b.
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:21 PM   #89
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Originally posted by verte76 Even Iraqis who've seen the pictures aren't convinced because the pictures are so bloodied up.
Really? How are they supposed to look after dying in hail of gunfire? I'd be unconvinced if the bodies weren't bloodied.
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:37 PM   #90
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Really? How are they supposed to look after dying in hail of gunfire? I'd be unconvinced if the bodies weren't bloodied.
Actually I just saw a blurb on my ISP's news that they'd "fixed up" the bodies to more closely resemble the brothers. These were shown to reporters. It's also being reported that some Arabic Moslems are "shocked" at the display of corpses because some of them believe that it's a violation of Islamic law. It quoted someone in Saudi Arabia who was really upset that the U.S. had done this. I understand we're not exactly doing this to please Moslems in Saudi Arabia but it may be offensive to their fellow Sunnis in Iraq. Considering the problems we're having with some of the Iraqi Sunnis maybe this isn't a great idea. Hell, I don't know.
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