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Old 03-10-2003, 05:06 PM   #16
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why, what has germany done in the past 100 years?
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Old 03-10-2003, 05:39 PM   #17
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A Russian was speaking on the news last night and he reckoned the only reason Russia is opposing war with Iraq is because Iraq owes Russia Billions. There must be more to it than that I would have thought but I do think the main reason countries are opposing war is not a moral stance but an economic stance
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Old 03-10-2003, 05:52 PM   #18
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Gickies Gageeze:

Germany was responsible for 2 Worldwars
After the fall of the 3rd Reich some of us learned the lesson history made for us history.

Ace Rimmer:
I'm curious, will debts be droped if there is a regime change?
That would be a great way for the so called "3rd world" to get rid of all their depts too wouldn't it?

Klaus
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Old 03-10-2003, 06:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Gickies Gageeze:

Ace Rimmer:
I'm curious, will debts be droped if there is a regime change?
That would be a great way for the so called "3rd world" to get rid of all their depts too wouldn't it?

Klaus
Well if this Russian is to be belived apparently so, Or maybe he just thinks it will be harder to recover the money under a new regime.
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Old 03-10-2003, 07:02 PM   #20
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Ace: who was that russian, was he a politican, a journalist, someone from the street?
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Old 03-10-2003, 07:13 PM   #21
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I read this somewhere too....about the Russians.
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Old 03-10-2003, 07:59 PM   #22
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Dreadsox:

do you remember if it was a official statement or a personal opinion?
As i mentioned before, it dosn't make sense to me, debts aren't canceled, just because the government changes.

Klaus
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Old 03-10-2003, 08:01 PM   #23
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Klaus,

I have been actively looking. My brain is frazzled...and I cannot remember. I think I can rule out official statement.

I will keep searching. It will come to me...probably when I am far away from my computer..LOL
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Old 03-10-2003, 09:00 PM   #24
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Thats a great point Klaus.

Would the debts be dropped after a regime change. Well if the US were to go alone with Uk and they were to have a hand in the re-building process of Iraq i would think Bush would have his hand out for money as well. He wouldnt be doing this if he didnt see some sort of financial gain, like the French and Russians (i really dont think the Germans are doing this for money soley, but i'd be intrested in seeing if there is any gains in no war)

Do you think Bush would want to pay out countries that opposed his war then want their money back. Wouldnt it be ironic if Germany can looking for money owed after they opposed a war.
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Old 03-10-2003, 11:26 PM   #25
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I have no delusions about Russia or France being against this thing for solely pure peaceful reasons.

I fully believe that they see just how much at the mercy of the US they will be if the US goes in there and controls those oil fields, and they are quite right in defending their own economic position.

That is why I predict this will be World War 3.

Hey, didn't the Bible predict that "Armaggedon" would be fought in the middle east?



*wondering just how far the valley of Megiddo is from Iraq*

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Old 03-11-2003, 01:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Gickies Gageeze:

Germany was responsible for 2 Worldwars
After the fall of the 3rd Reich some of us learned the lesson history made for us history.
my comment was dripping with sarcasm. remember that world war 2 history thread i started a while back?
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Old 03-11-2003, 02:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gickies Gageeze


my comment was dripping with sarcasm. remember that world war 2 history thread i started a while back?
no i don't
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Old 03-11-2003, 03:03 AM   #28
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Normal Economic Factors? This is a Banking War.

Okay, nobody's innocent here. *Everybody* stands to gain and/or lose in this war, including the French, Germans, Russia, and definitely the U.S.

I do think there are some moral positions in all of this, but lets not delude ourselves either. The economic factor is overwhelming. In fact, it is my opinion that along with the obvious zionist agenda, the main reason for this war is economic, and economic globalism. I briefly detailed some of this in another post a while back. Basically, the U.S. economy is in a world of hurt; more than the financial guys are letting on (though Greenspan is starting to let hints slip through). It is no secret financial topbrass are playing financial collapse games with the FED and the Council on Foregin Relations in NY right now. The world all over, from China to Russia and more are dropping the U.S. dollar from their holdings like there's no tomorrow. They are all moving towards the Euro. OPEC is moving to the Euro. Iraq already has. The U.S. can't simply print Euros. Many financial analysts simply don't see the Federal Reserve System surviving a financial collapse. The FED is a house of cards; a ponzai scheme if you will, which has essentially played itself out. Only more massive debt can prop this system up. Of course we are seeing this in Bush's insane economic planning. Nevertheless, the U.S. will go bankrupt if this isn't changed soon, or it doesn't achieve worldwide economic dominance. And I hate Bush for this; he's betting the future of an entire country on his Pax Americana ambitions. We won't have much to worry about if the U.S. dominates the world economy, which is, of course, very much tied to the U.S. economy. The very heart of governments and financial institutions worldwide are jockeying for position in this banking war. The U.S. and Britain are on one side of it. The first step towards this goal is the control of Iraq. It's been documented, folks. France, Germany, and Russia are on the other side of this banking war and want no part of world-wide American capotolistic dominance. Oil plays a key role in all of this, of course, which is one reason why Iraq is so key to PNAC's ambitions. The world is currently stretched at peak capacity. When the numbers are added up, the evidence indicates that such a peak for conventional oil will arrive around 2005, and about five years later for all hydrocarbons, assuming no radical change in demand. Uh oh.

Yes, Russia and France have long-term oil contract with Iraq. So do many French, British, and other international companies. They shouldn't have to worry about thier contracts, however, they know what the U.S. was essentially told by an ex-Iraqi (defector I believe): That, should there be regime change in Iraq, all existing oil contracts can be null and voided, and war restitutions can be appropriated from Iraqi oil. Of course, just GUESS who is all lined up for this various array of new contracts? Could it maybe, perhaps, just >possibly< be Bush, his father, Cheney, the rest of his administration which is steeped in the oil industry, his corporate "friends", and other interests? This is a no brainer, is in fact, documented, and the rest of the freaking world sees it. France and Russia are pretty miffed about seeing their contracts essentially stolen right from underneath of them, while already having invested billions. We should not forget all of the financial incentives the Bush administration, his friends, and family will make off this war. The answer is that they will make millions upon millions. The whole thing is so sickeningly corrupt, it's not even in the slightest funny.

Nor, I think, should we forget all of the economic "incentives" the U.S. are paying countries for their support. Of course, we are essentially buying out the support of states, and even would try the votes of the security council. When approached by this, Ari Fleischer was literally laughed off stage by the press when he insisted Bush would do no thing. Hehe.
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Old 03-11-2003, 03:34 AM   #29
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France=Macphisto/a..a tired old PopStar, wondering is she is still relevant
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Old 03-11-2003, 03:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
France=Macphisto/a..a tired old PopStar, wondering is she is still relevant
that is one of the most callous, arrogant, insulting, unnecessary, and disgusting things I've heard recently.

i guess when we start questioning the relevancy of our fellow human beings, we've definitely lost something very important to us all.

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