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Old 10-01-2007, 04:57 PM   #61
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I think it's a mistake to criticize soliders for being honest.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:00 PM   #62
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I think it's a mistake to criticize soliders for being honest.
I think perhaps it's implied in that criticism that somehow they're being dishonest. That's a mistake too.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:30 PM   #63
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Jesse MacBeth is a phony soldier and he was out there with made up atrocities.
To get back to the topic: Isn’t Jesse MacBeth the person Rush called a phony soldier? Am I missing something here? Why is the left demanding Rush apologize for calling Jesse MacBeth a phony soldier? I thought that Jesse MacBeth was the guy who made all the false claims about our military that wound up on Arabic web sites and network television. I don’t recall as much media coverage of the TRUTH. From what I have read, Rush’s statement was taken out of context and passed around the media and the democratic party as the truth. The truth for the democratic party is nothing more than fiction that serves their purpose.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:34 PM   #64
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I think perhaps it's implied in that criticism that somehow they're being dishonest. That's a mistake too.
I think the dishonest part is the press attibuting the entire morale of the Armed Forces to any Private First Class they can find who wants to complain.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:14 PM   #65
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I think the dishonest part is the press attibuting the entire morale of the Armed Forces to any Private First Class they can find who wants to complain.
Ditto
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I think the dishonest part is the press attibuting the entire morale of the Armed Forces to any Private First Class they can find who wants to complain.


and, likewise, attributing the entire morale of the Armed Forces to any Private First Class who's really excited about shooting arabs.

opinion in the Armed Forces is, as it is everywhere, nuanced, and increasingly anti-war.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:28 PM   #67
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Originally posted by swizzlestick


To get back to the topic: Isn’t Jesse MacBeth the person Rush called a phony soldier? Am I missing something here? Why is the left demanding Rush apologize for calling Jesse MacBeth a phony soldier? I thought that Jesse MacBeth was the guy who made all the false claims about our military that wound up on Arabic web sites and network television. I don’t recall as much media coverage of the TRUTH. From what I have read, Rush’s statement was taken out of context and passed around the media and the democratic party as the truth. The truth for the democratic party is nothing more than fiction that serves their purpose.


this is Limaugh's current story, that's true, and this is how the right wing echo chamber -- led by Fox News -- is attempting to spin the story. but the truth is that Rush did mention MacBeth, along with Rep. Murtha and Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp.

[q]"CALLER 2: No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.

LIMBAUGH: The phony soldiers."[/q]

and he kept it plural. soldiers. and i'd love to see this "poster boy" status of MacBeth on left-wing blogs. if you can provide examples, please go ahead.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:59 PM   #68
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Originally posted by Irvine511


this is Limaugh's current story, that's true, and this is how the right wing echo chamber -- led by Fox News -- is attempting to spin the story. but the truth is that Rush did mention MacBeth, along with Rep. Murtha and Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp.
I don’t go to left-wing blogs, so you got me there. And I never said he was your poster boy. Nor do I do watch Fox News or read right-wing blogs. I too was appalled at the context of what he said. However, I read the transcript and read several news stories about the incident and came to the conclusion on my own that what he said was taken out of context. This is a smear tactic through and through. I’ll ask again. Why is the left demanding Rush apologize for calling Jesse MacBeth a phony soldier? Is he not a phony soldier?

I have no idea where you got Murtha and Beauchamp. Maybe you can find it on some of your left-wing blogs?
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:03 PM   #69
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How can you reach the conclusion that it was just MacBeth when it was plural?

He deliberately insulted any soldier who criticizes the war in the media. That is crystal clear from the context.
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:27 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by swizzlestick
[B]
Why is the left demanding Rush apologize for calling Jesse MacBeth a phony soldier? Is he not a phony soldier?

again, if you read the transcripts, you'll see that Rush was talking about soldierS who criticize the war as "phony" soldiers.



oh, and i think this is a massive waste of time. nearly as big a waste of time as the "Petraeus/Betray Us" nonsense.

all it does is give the Republicans what they want: the chance to change the subject.

we've been subject to their abysmal policies for 7 years and the worst president in any of our lifetimes. thousands have been killed in a foreign policy disaster -- and we're getting all upset about name calling?

grow up, all of you. and DON'T let the president shirk everything off to the next president, who'll likely be a Democrat, and DON'T let them try and create some neo-stabbed in the back narrative where we think that Cindy Sheehan single-handedly defeated the US Army in Fallujah just like Jane Fonda defeated US troops in the Mekong Delta.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:09 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



again, if you read the transcripts, you'll see that Rush was talking about soldierS who criticize the war as "phony" soldiers.



oh, and i think this is a massive waste of time. nearly as big a waste of time as the "Petraeus/Betray Us" nonsense.

all it does is give the Republicans what they want: the chance to change the subject.

we've been subject to their abysmal policies for 7 years and the worst president in any of our lifetimes. thousands have been killed in a foreign policy disaster -- and we're getting all upset about name calling?

grow up, all of you. and DON'T let the president shirk everything off to the next president, who'll likely be a Democrat, and DON'T let them try and create some neo-stabbed in the back narrative where we think that Cindy Sheehan single-handedly defeated the US Army in Fallujah just like Jane Fonda defeated US troops in the Mekong Delta.
Preach it, brother.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:19 AM   #72
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To tell you the truth, I wish the Right WAS right about how things are going in Iraq. It would mean the blood and treasure spent there wouldn't have been for naught.

The problem is, unfortunately, that the Right is wrong.

No amount of "surging" is going to solve the political debacle in Iraq. . .a debacle that we should have seen coming. Can we decrease the level of violence, temporarily? Quite possibly. But real success in Iraq would have to come from resolving the Shiite/Sunni issues in the country.

When I look at what's happened in Iraq, to me it's like a semi-truck that's gone over a bridge and into deep canyon. You can argue about whether to try to recover the truck or put it back together, but the reality is that truck is pretty much fucked no matter what you do.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:21 AM   #73
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And the decision to go into Iraq was like deciding to drive the truck off the bridge and planning for it to land squarely in the canyon, and then keep on driving. Just like in the movies.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:11 AM   #74
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And the decision to go into Iraq was like deciding to drive the truck off the bridge and planning for it to land squarely in the canyon, and then keep on driving. Just like in the movies.
That may be one of the greatest descriptions I've ever read for this bloodbath masquerading as a war.

Similie can solve anything.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:30 AM   #75
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http://mediamatters.org/items/200709290002?f=h_top


A September 28 Associated Press article about comments made by Rush Limbaugh on his September 26 radio show -- in which, as documented by Media Matters for America, he called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers" -- reported: "In a transcript of Thursday's show posted on his Web site, Limbaugh said the comment followed a discussion of Jesse Macbeth, who was sentenced to five months in prison earlier this month for collecting more than $10,00 [sic] in benefits to which he was not entitled." In fact, the "phony soldiers" comment did not "follow a discussion of Jesse Macbeth"; Limbaugh did not mention MacBeth on the September 26 radio show until 1 minute and 50 seconds after his "phony soldiers" comment, as Media Matters noted.

On the September 28 broadcast of his program, Limbaugh claimed that his September 26 "phony soldiers" comment was a reference to Jesse MacBeth, an anti-war activist who pleaded guilty to one count of making false statements to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs for pretending to be an injured Iraq war veteran. However, as Media Matters noted, at no point during his September 26 radio show prior to making his "phony soldiers" comment did Limbaugh refer to MacBeth, or indeed any specific soldiers whom he considered to be fake.
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