rumor on The Hill -- Rummy out, Lieberman in - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-11-2005, 04:37 AM   #16
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I'll see you Jim Jeffords and raise you Zell Miller. At least Jeffords bothered to actually *leave* the party before he started bashing it.

And short of Lincoln Chafee and maybe Olympia Snowe, I'm not terribly impressed. McCain, above all, disappoints me. For such the "rebel," he's still a reliable trumpet for the Bush Administration on television and on the campaign trails. I often think he takes one step forward and two steps back on his way to work.

Melon
Well, McCain also has many of the same beliefs as Bush. He is a strong supporter of the military, perhaps an even stronger supporter of the mission in Iraq as he is talking about sending thousands of more troops rather than any discussion of a draw down. Will find out in 18 months or so if he plans to run for president in 2008. If he decides to, I think he will be unstoppable.
__________________

__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-11-2005, 10:56 AM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Well, McCain also has many of the same beliefs as Bush. He is a strong supporter of the military, perhaps an even stronger supporter of the mission in Iraq as he is talking about sending thousands of more troops rather than any discussion of a draw down. Will find out in 18 months or so if he plans to run for president in 2008. If he decides to, I think he will be unstoppable.
Well, he did run for president once, and, clearly, he WAS stoppable. The Bush campaign had no qualms about defaming the man to death. McCain got a good taste of what true conservatism is all about, and it's the furthest from moderate or libertarian. There's absolutely no indication that wingnuts like Frist, who has presidential aspirations the last I heard, wouldn't do it again.

But assuming the campaign was actually fair for once, I find it unfortunate that he could be this unstoppable. I think very few people understand McCain's platform, and I don't say this to either be a positive or negative reflection on his potential platform. It's just that people would vote for him based on his image, which is little more than a romantic fantasy, at this point. And my fear would be that we'd have another ineffectual and histrionic 4-8 years like this current president we have.

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 12-11-2005, 11:15 AM   #18
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,883
Local Time: 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Well, he did run for president once, and, clearly, he WAS stoppable. The Bush campaign had no qualms about defaming the man to death. McCain got a good taste of what true conservatism is all about, and it's the furthest from moderate or libertarian. There's absolutely no indication that wingnuts like Frist, who has presidential aspirations the last I heard, wouldn't do it again.

But assuming the campaign was actually fair for once, I find it unfortunate that he could be this unstoppable. I think very few people understand McCain's platform, and I don't say this to either be a positive or negative reflection on his potential platform. It's just that people would vote for him based on his image, which is little more than a romantic fantasy, at this point.
I would prefer to see McCain in the role of Defense Secretary in the next administration, not President.

Back to your first point, do you see Giuliani running into the same flak as McCain did in the Republican primaries?
__________________
Bluer White is offline  
Old 12-11-2005, 11:20 AM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:35 PM
I find it difficult to believe that Lieberman would accept a position in the Bush Administration, after being Al Gore's running mate and the content of his speech at the DNC just last year. I'm not crazy about Lieberman's voting record but I do think he's one of the most honorable people in Washington, which admittedly isn't saying much. I respect his integrity if not his voting record.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-11-2005, 11:20 AM   #20
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bluer White
Back to your first point, do you see Giuliani running into the same flak as McCain did in the Republican primaries?
The Religious Right has made him a marked man. They see him as too liberal with his historically pro-choice and pro-gay beliefs. The Religious Right will do anything it can to ruin him, even if that means a barrage of Bible Belt push polls that ask the "hypothetical" of what they would do if Giuliani used tax dollars to pay for sex change surgeries.

There is a very dangerous extremist element within the Republican Party right now, and, for them, the ends justify the means.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 12-11-2005, 10:19 PM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Well, he did run for president once, and, clearly, he WAS stoppable. The Bush campaign had no qualms about defaming the man to death. McCain got a good taste of what true conservatism is all about, and it's the furthest from moderate or libertarian. There's absolutely no indication that wingnuts like Frist, who has presidential aspirations the last I heard, wouldn't do it again.

But assuming the campaign was actually fair for once, I find it unfortunate that he could be this unstoppable. I think very few people understand McCain's platform, and I don't say this to either be a positive or negative reflection on his potential platform. It's just that people would vote for him based on his image, which is little more than a romantic fantasy, at this point. And my fear would be that we'd have another ineffectual and histrionic 4-8 years like this current president we have.

Melon
Well, McCain was stopped back then, but not before he defeated Bush in several states across the country. Since 2000, McCain's stature has only grown. He much more widely known and respected today than he ever was. Chris Matthews has said that if McCain wants to be President, he will be. The only obstacle might be the far right of the Republican party.

But, if the Republican position in congress and in the polls gets worse over the next few years, resistence to a McCain nomination from the far right in 2008 will actually decrease as even the far right will prefer to win with McCain than to simply give the Democrats an easy victory. McCain is pro-life and pro-gun, two big things right in line with the far right. It may be a difficult pill to swallow, but those on the far right will indeed swallow if the Republicans over all position in the country politically gets worse in the next few years.


In the poll we did of McCain VS. Clinton in here, McCain won easily, and this is a forum that indeed is on the left side of the fence by a sizable majority when it comes to politics. The average person on the street in this country would be to the right of most people in here.

First, though, McCain must decide that he wants to run and that decision is probably still 18 months away.

2nd, he has to get the nomination in early 2008. I think McCain will get it this time either way, but the more successful democrats are in the next few years, the more likely the base will be willing to support McCain in order to win. Even without that, Bill Frist is no George Bush and gives new meaning to the term "wooden". The base will not rally around Frist the way they did around Bush, and McCains political and star position is larger than it has ever been.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-11-2005, 11:11 PM   #22
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:35 AM
For the record, I'm not a fan of a Hillary Clinton nomination. I might have been a few months ago, but her behavior lately makes me believe her maneuvers are more calculated than sincere. This was the same fatal mistake that hurt John Kerry, ultimately.

I'm leaning more towards the Mark Warner camp myself. I was impressed with an interview I saw of him once, and I actually got the sense that he actually believed what he said. Anyway, the 2008 election is some ways away, and I'd be interested in hearing what McCain/Warner/someone else believes.

I would actually very much welcome a race with McCain as the nominee. I think we would, at least, finally have a campaign based mostly on the issues, rather than fearmongering. I also think I could respect a victory for McCain if I had to, rather than feeling like it's the end of the world like I have with Bush.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:10 PM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
For the record, I'm not a fan of a Hillary Clinton nomination. I might have been a few months ago, but her behavior lately makes me believe her maneuvers are more calculated than sincere. This was the same fatal mistake that hurt John Kerry, ultimately.

I'm leaning more towards the Mark Warner camp myself. I was impressed with an interview I saw of him once, and I actually got the sense that he actually believed what he said. Anyway, the 2008 election is some ways away, and I'd be interested in hearing what McCain/Warner/someone else believes.

I would actually very much welcome a race with McCain as the nominee. I think we would, at least, finally have a campaign based mostly on the issues, rather than fearmongering. I also think I could respect a victory for McCain if I had to, rather than feeling like it's the end of the world like I have with Bush.

Melon
I agree with all three of your points. I have never wanted Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic nominee; I prefer Warner. I also think McCain is more likely to discuss the issues rather than be the fearmongerer I think Bush is, and would make a far better president.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:19 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 11:35 AM
Can I jump in with a quick & short statement?

McCain sucks ass.

Why? Well, I liked him a bit at first. The thing that led to the above opinion (McCain sucking ass, that is) was what happened at the Republican National Convention: McCain stood behind Bush and made him sound like he was God's gift to mankind. This, after months of heavy criticism against the Administration & dozens of its policies. That'd be fine if he were your run-of-the-mill politician..no biggie. The kicker is that McCain is a guy who has built his entire career on being a man of honesty, integrity, and conviction. I saw his performance at the RNConv. as pure weakness, evidencing 1). His willingness to be used as a puppet of his party, and 2). A clear move designed to gain party support for a presidential run in 2008.

Sure, he'd probably be a decent president. If we got him, I wouldn't be terribly disappointed. He'd most likely do a pretty good job---overwhelmingly more so than what we've got now. Still, for a man whose image is based so strongly on his character, that one event stood out so clearly to me as absolutely ---

Lame.
__________________
Utoo is offline  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:30 PM   #25
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,486
Local Time: 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Utoo
Can I jump in with a quick & short statement?

McCain sucks ass.

Why? Well, I liked him a bit at first. The thing that led to the above opinion (McCain sucking ass, that is) was what happened at the Republican National Convention: McCain stood behind Bush and made him sound like he was God's gift to mankind. This, after months of heavy criticism against the Administration & dozens of its policies. That'd be fine if he were your run-of-the-mill politician..no biggie. The kicker is that McCain is a guy who has built his entire career on being a man of honesty, integrity, and conviction. I saw his performance at the RNConv. as pure weakness, evidencing 1). His willingness to be used as a puppet of his party, and 2). A clear move designed to gain party support for a presidential run in 2008.

Sure, he'd probably be a decent president. If we got him, I wouldn't be terribly disappointed. He'd most likely do a pretty good job---overwhelmingly more so than what we've got now. Still, for a man whose image is based so strongly on his character, that one event stood out so clearly to me as absolutely ---

Lame.


i totally agree with this.

i tend to like McCain's politics, for the most part.

but his whoring for the president -- a man who destroyed him in the South Carolina primaries through a telephone political "survey" set up by Rove where they called up old, racist members of the GOP and asked questions like, "would it change your opinion of Sen. McCain if you knew he fathered a black child out of wedlock" and insinuating that he was mentally unstable ... i'm sorry, but McCain loses much credibility in my book.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:38 AM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 03:35 PM
I'd put McCain up against anyone in the "credibility" department.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-14-2005, 05:48 AM   #27
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I'd put McCain up against anyone in the "credibility" department.
Well, I like McCain but the bar IS set pretty low.
__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 12-14-2005, 06:21 AM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Two questions:

(a) Is McCain that good, or only good because he's being held up against Bush?

(b) Even if he is good, and becomes President, is that really worth anything if he's still surrounded by a crew similar to the current Administration/Republican Right dominated? I mean, I know he gets to pick and choose his people, but how much moderate power would he really have within his own party?
__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline  
Old 12-14-2005, 07:23 AM   #29
War Child
 
karls77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southeast UK (formerly Tucson, AZ)
Posts: 689
Local Time: 03:35 PM
McCain should have been elected President instead of Bush in 2000. He would have handled 9/11 in a more professional manner and the country would not be in the mess that it is now in. His window of opportunity has passed and his character has been diminished as a result of his continued public support for Bush. It is too late for him. Next.
__________________
karls77 is offline  
Old 12-14-2005, 03:47 PM   #30
War Child
 
MumblingBono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The State Good Bands Skip Over
Posts: 566
Local Time: 03:35 PM
^wrong.

He has only gained stature, and no one will remember or care that he stood behind Bush in a show of unity. The Bush presidency has been so harmful to the US that a true leader like McCain can step RIGHT into the void and sweep to victory.

There's nothing they can throw at him that he hasn't already heard.

Name me ANYONE who compares in name recognition, or respect across party lines.
__________________

__________________
MumblingBono is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com