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u2bonogirl

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Back on the blue crack after a long break
By LINDA A. JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 52 minutes ago

TRENTON, N.J. - Everyone knows condoms prevent pregnancy and protect against sexually transmitted diseases. But how well do they work?


That question is at the center of a debate over whether the labels on condom packages should be changed.

On one side are abstinence advocates, including a conservative congressman who is blocking appointment of a new federal drug agency chief until the labels are changed. On the other side are "safe sex" advocates who fear label changes could undermine confidence in condoms and increase the spread of
AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.

Each side has some truth in its argument: Condoms are very effective against the AIDS virus, but data for their effectiveness against some other STDs is surprisingly spotty.

"They do not provide 100 percent protection, but for people who are sexually active they are the best and the only method we have for preventing these diseases," said Heather Boonstra, a public policy official with the Alan Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit group that researches reproductive health issues.

Boonstra said Republican Sen. Tom Coburn, a physician from Oklahoma, and the abstinence-promoting Medical Institute for Sexual Health are "manipulating this data to drive home their own anti-condom, anti-contraceptive message."

James Trussell, who serves on the board of the Guttmacher Institute and is director of Princeton University's Office of Population Research, said there is "absolutely incontrovertible evidence" that condoms reduce transmission of the most serious sexually transmitted disease, AIDS.

"To my mind, everything else is gravy," Trussell said this week. "All of this is ideologically motivated. What they're really concerned about is people who are not married having sex."

But John Hart, spokesman for Coburn, said the senator's June 15 hold on Lester Crawford's nomination as commissioner of the
Food and Drug Administration is an effort to make Crawford obey a 2000 law Coburn sponsored. It requires the FDA to change condom labels to give more information on their "effectiveness or lack of the effectiveness in preventing STDs."

Hart said FDA officials recently have said they will have a draft of the language soon. FDA spokeswoman Julie Zawisza said she could not discuss policy issues.

Dr. Marie Savard, a women's health specialist in Philadelphia, said she has qualms about using the word "ineffective" but agreed people need reliable information.

"The labeling should be changed to something like, 'condoms protect better against some STDs than others,'" Savard said.

Currently, FDA requires condom boxes and packets to state: "If used properly, latex condoms will help to reduce the risk of transmission of
HIV infection (AIDS) and many other sexually transmitted diseases." Many brands also state condoms are highly effective in preventing pregnancy.

When latex condoms are used every time and put on early enough, they reduce chances of pregnancy over a one-year period to 3 percent, compared with 85 percent without birth control. Likewise, condoms cut risk of HIV infection by about 80 percent, to less than a 1 percent chance of infection per year.

According to the
National Institutes of Health, condoms are impervious to the smallest viruses and only break or slip off 1 percent to 2 percent of the time. But surveys show most people don't use them properly or consistently, and roughly 12 million Americans each year contract an STD.

A 2001 NIH expert panel, convened at Coburn's request, examined dozens of published studies. It reported that for STDs besides AIDS and gonorrhea, for which condoms cut transmission by 50 percent to 100 percent, the evidence on protection is unclear because of weak and contradictory studies. Individual studies cited in the report give prevention rates ranging from 18 percent to 92 percent, depending on the disease.

The Medical Institute for Sexual Health's board chairman, Dr. Tom Fitch, who has previously pushed FDA officials for label changes, said some STDs are much more easily spread than others. In addition, STDs such as herpes and human papilloma virus, or HPV, can be transmitted by contact with skin not covered by a condom.

Fitch said he would not discourage condom use, but his group advocates abstinence or monogamy and it trains teachers how to teach students about abstinence.

That's an "unrealistic explanation" for young people, said Dr. Shari Brasner, an obstetrician/gynecologist at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York who has patients as young as 13 who are sexually active. "These conservatives are the same people that are trying to limit access to the morning-after (birth control) pill. They'll leave us with nothing."
 
this depresses me to no end.

condoms, used correctly, work.

to say anything else is to endanger lives for the sake of a backwards, know-nothing agenda.
 
financeguy said:
Try masturbation kids!

I tried it once, and I never looked back. :ohmy:



:shame:

careful. that could get you fired from your job as Surgeon General.

god forbid we treat our children as anything other than blond angelic little vessels of chastity and purity who have no desires, no complex thoughts, no confusing emotions, no sexuality, no appetites, no weaknesses, no shortcomings, make no mistakes and live a perfectly virtuous Biblical life.
 
nbcrusader said:


Is this a question that cannot be asked?
]




it's asked, and answered all the time.

when used correctly, condoms provide protection from pregnancy and most STDs around 99% of the time.

ask any doctor who isn't employed by the Family Research Counsil or a Republican Congressman.
 
Irvine511 said:
god forbid we treat our children as anything other than blond angelic little vessels of chastity and purity who have no desires, no complex thoughts, no confusing emotions, no sexuality, no appetites, no weaknesses, no shortcomings, make no mistakes and live a perfectly virtuous Biblical life.

Can we have one thread without a cheap shot at Christianity?
 
nbcrusader said:


Can we have one thread without a cheap shot at Christianity?



can certain elements of Christianity stop distorting science to serve their agenda of social control?

i'll stop when they stop.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
What does Christianity have to do with how well a condom works? :huh:



it is in the best interests of groups like Focus on the Family, Concerned Women for America, and the Family Research Council who promote a Biblically-based, abstinence-only (their words, not mine) approach to sexual education to advance the legitimacy of their agenda by distorting factual information that makes sexual behavior appear to be more risky than it actually is and to make birth control devices less reliable than they actually are. through distortions of science, they engender fear, and through fear, they can push an ideology based in faith not science.

huge thread on this a while ago -- some materials used as "fact" by these groups said that HIV can be transmitted through sweat and tears, that mutual maturbation can cause pregnancy, and that half of all gay teenagers have HIV.

all lies.

deady lies, too, for when you withold information on birth control and condoms, the more likely one is not to use anything should one choose to have sex.
 
nbcrusader said:
I think you can do better than that.



no. all this stuff comes from certain right wing Christianist elements (enough adjectives there? of course i don't mean all Christians, or even Christianity). you don't see Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists or agnostics twisting facts in order to promote their interpretation of how their religion views human sexuality.
 
Irvine511 said:
...that mutual maturbation can cause pregnancy...

...lies.

You should tell that to my cousin and her boyfriend, oh and their nine year old son....

Oh, by the way, I'm a Christian. I use condoms. Your arguement ends there then.
 
Doc Ocho said:


You should tell that to my cousin and her boyfriend, oh and their nine year old son....

Oh, by the way, I'm a Christian. I use condoms. Your arguement ends there then.



fistly, the chances are very, very, very rare that mutual masturbation will cause pregnancy. of course it is possible, but you're more likely to be struck by lighting.

go and re-read my posts. nowhere did i say that Christians shouldn't use condoms, or that Christians didn't use condoms. i don't care what you do, so long as you are safe and happy.

however, the point you're missing is that there are elements of Christianity who would like you to think that using condoms is un-Christian.
 
Irvine511 said:
all this stuff comes from certain right wing Christianist elements (enough adjectives there? of course i don't mean all Christians, or even Christianity).

Certain being the right word here, not all of us!!!!

you don't see Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists or agnostics twisting facts in order to promote their interpretation of how their religion views human sexuality.

Actually, as someone who has studied many religions around the world.... You do find them doing just that.
 
Irvine511 said:
fistly, the chances are very, very, very rare that mutual masturbation will cause pregnancy. of course it is possible...
A minute ago you called it a lie...

And I know what your posts said... I just don't think that it is fair that you whitewash us all for what right wing fundementalists in your own country get on like!!!

Or should I assume that you, like some of your countrymen, get off on War?
 
:banghead:

Irvine very, VERY specifically stated that it is certain groups within the larger Christian community responsible for these moves.

For heaven's sake.

Read, THEN post.
 
Let's get things straight:

1) Abstinence-only programs are a failure. Period.

2) While there are "creative" ways to get pregnant, you are statistically more likely to contract an STD or get pregnant if you *don't* use a condom.

3) Religious organizations are clearly operating within a specific agenda that they choose to espouse; and it is not the place of religious organizations to set scientific labels. Their bias is blatantly obvious.

Melon
 
Doc Ocho said:


Certain being the right word here, not all of us!!!!



Actually, as someone who has studied many religions around the world.... You do find them doing just that.




1. and i go to great lengths, each and every time, to make that distinction.

2. yes, they do that to THEIR FOLLOWERS, not as a matter of national education policy.

what's really going on here is prosthetizing. it's a method of trying to legitimize control over what choices you make. essentialy, i am very happy to let all Christians of all stripes live however they choose. however, there are certain elements of Christianity that are not willing to let me live how i choose. they are growing ever more shrewd and ever more sophistocated at dressing up what is a subjective Biblical message (not agreed upon by all Christians) and calling it science and then translating that into public policy via a very sympathetic WH administration and Congress.

in a secular society, we give people facts, not sermons, and allow them to make their own decisions.

there are many Republicans who sincerely disagree with that. Rep. Santorum is on record saying that what goes on in the bedrooms of consenting adults is in the government's interest to regulate, since he feels that what he views as immoral sexual behavior creates a climate where other immoral behavior takes place. he views it to be in the nation's best interests to regulate all kinds of human behavior -- and this goes beyond saying that some kinds of sexuality are illegal (like pedophilia). instead of saying "this is wrong and it is illegal" he wants to say "this is the only way sexuality should be and this is therefore the only form of it that is legal."

and governments do that. in theocracies.
 
I guess it's an American thing. The Church and State are really quite seperate here. There are some Judeo-Christian ideals, but not many!

I see that you try to point out that it is certain elements twisting things, but we Christians can get quite shirty about the use of the word "Christians"...

Personally, I prefer Right Wing Christians, even Fundamentalist as a prefix works. :wink:

I don't know you from the next guy, but I can sense that you are a good guy. Maybe next time, you should try to ensure that you don't vote in a w*nker like GW. :whistle:
 
Irvine511 said:




it is in the best interests of groups like Focus on the Family, Concerned Women for America, and the Family Research Council who promote a Biblically-based, abstinence-only (their words, not mine) approach to sexual education to advance the legitimacy of their agenda by distorting factual information that makes sexual behavior appear to be more risky than it actually is and to make birth control devices less reliable than they actually are. through distortions of science, they engender fear, and through fear, they can push an ideology based in faith not science.

huge thread on this a while ago -- some materials used as "fact" by these groups said that HIV can be transmitted through sweat and tears, that mutual maturbation can cause pregnancy, and that half of all gay teenagers have HIV.

all lies.

deady lies, too, for when you withold information on birth control and condoms, the more likely one is not to use anything should one choose to have sex.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I've been a Christian my entire life and have never come into contact w/ any of these groups, nor have I ever been taught those lies about HIV and masturbation. My only knowledge of these people and their teachings is from threads like this here in FYM. Our sex ed classes (yes, I had sex ed classes at multiple grade levels in my private schools) taught about condoms and other birth control and anything you want (or didn't want) to know about any STD. Of course, they push abstinence as the BEST option, but IMO that IS the best option for birth control and STD prevention regardless of religion. They would never withhold info or change information. Parents would find out and would NOT be pleased. They won't pay thousands of dollars a year for their kids education only to find out their kids are being lied to about sex. I don't understand how anyone, Christian or not, would find that acceptable.

The way I see things, something either works, or it doesn't. If a condom isn't 100% effective, I personally would not consider it the best option to use as birth control and STD protection. I don't mean to say I just wouldn't have my partner use condoms and still have sex, but I think If you want to be 100% sure, have each partner do their part by each using some form of birth control and you're good to go. As for STD prevention...I guess I have no comment there since I don't think I'd ever have sex with someone without having him tested first.
 
Doc Ocho said:

Personally, I prefer Right Wing Christians, even Fundamentalist as a prefix works. :wink:

Hey now, I'm a right-leaning Christian who has more in common with Islam than Fundamentalist Christianity.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:



The way I see things, something either works, or it doesn't. If a condom isn't 100% effective, I personally would not consider it the best option to use as birth control and STD protection. I don't mean to say I just wouldn't have my partner use condoms and still have sex, but I think If you want to be 100% sure, have each partner do their part by each using some form of birth control and you're good to go. As for STD prevention...I guess I have no comment there since I don't think I'd ever have sex with someone without having him tested first.



i agree with you.

it is factual to point out that the only way to be sure that you will never contract an STD or get pregnant is through abstinence. however, it is not factual to distort information about the efficacy of birth control or fear-monger in regards to STDs. i wish i could source it, but i do believe (and i could be wrong, relying on memory here) that the Concerned Women for America is actually concerned that they might soon have a vaccine for HPV (genital warts). they view STDs as a method to encourage abstinence, so they actually want *more* STDs in order to advance their agenda.

as for myself, since marriage is really not an option, and since i think sexual activity is both enjoyable and a great way to build a relationship as well as explore both my body and my soul, i do have sex, but i am armed to the teeth with condoms and knoweldge.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


Hey now, I'm a right-leaning Christian who has more in common with Islam than Fundamentalist Christianity.

We have just made a reservation for you to have an extended stay in a tropical climate, with appropriate meals and worship time.:wave:
 
Irvine511 said:
no. all this stuff comes from certain right wing Christianist elements (enough adjectives there? of course i don't mean all Christians, or even Christianity). you don't see Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists or agnostics twisting facts in order to promote their interpretation of how their religion views human sexuality.

Actually, you can. I understand your beef with certain "right wing Christian elements" (and acknowledge that lack of use of the adjectives would be flame bait). The other groups listed have their own interpretations of human sexuality and freely espouse them (we just don't discuss it here).

The article is not about Biblical views of sexuality. It is about placing a label on a package of condoms. Frankly, I find the argument that we shouldn't warn of a condom's imperfections because it will increase the spread of AIDS quite weak.
 
nbcrusader said:


Actually, you can. I understand your beef with certain "right wing Christian elements" (and acknowledge that lack of use of the adjectives would be flame bait). The other groups listed have their own interpretations of human sexuality and freely espouse them (we just don't discuss it here).

The article is not about Biblical views of sexuality. It is about placing a label on a package of condoms. Frankly, I find the argument that we shouldn't warn of a condom's imperfections because it will increase the spread of AIDS quite weak.


the difference is that the above religious groups don't have the political weight and power and the ear of the White House that do explicitly "Christian" groups like Focus on the Family and the others i've listed in the past. all religions are free to espouse their views to their followers, but they are not free to translate those views into public policy as we are currently seeing under the Bush administration and the advance of abstinence-only curriculum in many states and it brought about the ire of Rep. Waxman (D-NY) who was astonished to see that the Bush administration has used taxpayer dollars to support grotesquely misleading, distorted facts about sexuality peddled as "education" to teenagers. as we've seen repeatedly, much of the abstinence-only legitimacy is predicated upon the discrediting of legitimate forms of birth control and STD protection via the distortion of the effectiveness of condoms. and regardless of what is explicitly stated in the article, the discussion has moved on from there (as such discussions do).

can you see the difference between saying "condoms are not 100% effective" vs. "condoms can fail up to 15% of the time"?

one is fact, the other is a distortion of fact that corresopnds, intentionally, with an agenda.
 
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