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Old 06-06-2004, 09:33 PM   #31
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Be careful with your respectful posts, Melon. I'm actually starting to like you. I may disagree with a lot of what you say, but at least you say it well. It takes a lot of honesty and maturity to admit that you feel conflict at this time. From someone who's as far on the liberal side as you appear to be, your ability to "discuss" while remaining respectful is to be commended.

No, that post was not directed at you. The separate thread for "discussion" on Reagan was a good idea, and unfortunately it has turned for the worse.

What is the most offensive is those who feel the need to be disrespectful in both threads. I'm all for free speech and the ability to express your thoughts, but I think we all need to keep an eye on our timing. Knowing when to say what is the main thing that keeps one from looking like an a**. Normally I wouldn't have responded to something like this, but I felt like this was a time to speak. Regardless of policies or politics or decisions that may or may not have resulted in what has been said here, there is no excuse for disrespecting a man so close to his death.
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Old 06-06-2004, 09:48 PM   #32
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I was once more partisan than this, but once I became disillusioned with the inaction of the Democratic Party, I started to look at the bigger picture. People who know me will realize that I do tend to think way outside of the box...and to the degree that I don't think "outside the box" like everyone else (if that makes any sense).

Regardless of what I think about Reagan's specific policies (many of which I disagree with, particularly with the way he redefined how inflation and unemployment figures were calculated to benefit him), I, like many, can admire the way he was unafraid to lead, forgetting about past precedent. That is the lesson that I take from him.

There may be a day where I decide that I want to run for political office, and it is this lesson that I will carry with me. I want to make a substantial difference in this nation, irrespective of the official party line. FDR did this for the Democratic Party in the 1930s, just as Reagan did it for the GOP. In the meantime, however, all I can do is continue to study up on both history and the present. Right now, I am working on entering the world of independent filmmaking, but hey...if Arnold can become governor of California, I don't think that is necessarily a liability.

I do believe that there are many reasons why people are angry at Reagan, and I have my own. However, what I have learned is that, rather than using such anger for self-destruction, I will use it for positive change. I certainly hope it pays off in the end.

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Old 06-06-2004, 09:51 PM   #33
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if you ever run for office, i'd vote for you.
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Old 06-06-2004, 10:06 PM   #34
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I started thinking more about Reagan. I still don't like him as a president, but he does deserve credit for opening relationships
with the Soviet Union. ( Nixon did the same thing with China)
And we were very lucky Gorby was in the Soviet Union at the
time.
Guess it takes a Republican to break the ice with communist
countries.
( The Dems may have been too scared, politically scared, that they would've been viewed as being soft on communism. )
My dislike of Reagan dates back to when he was governor
of California. Disliked his politics then, and as a prez.
if I had to choose between Reagan or Bush,
I'd go with Reagan. At least Reagan had something in the
way of intellect.
And I got to admit, Reagan was fun to watch on TV.
I usually didn't agree with what he said, but he was
amusing.
So, what the heck.......RIP Ronnie.
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Old 06-06-2004, 10:16 PM   #35
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There may be a day where I decide that I want to run for political office
I'm not sure if I'd vote for you; I'd have to hear some more of your stances before I'd throw my lot. But, your comments give me hope for the future of politics. It is my prayer that the our generation will learn from the evil of blind, partisan politics and make something better than the senseless garbage we have today.
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Old 06-07-2004, 12:12 AM   #36
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I will reserve my comments to this:

You don't make friends with salad.

Think about it.

~vegan.
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Old 06-07-2004, 10:58 AM   #37
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Why is it so bad to say bad things about someone after they're dead? I mean, they're dead. I wouldn't say bad things about someone who died to their loved ones' faces but I don't get the tiptoeing around otherwise. I guess I just see death differently than a lot of people. It's completely natural and always hard to lose someone but I don't suddenly get sentimental about people I never liked just because they died. It's not like I'm glad they're dead either, I guess I just don't care one way or the other.
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:03 AM   #38
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I too have changed my political views drastically since Reagan was president. I didn't like the guy's policies, but I now understand that I didn't appreciate that, like melon said, he wasn't afraid to lead. While he didn't overthrow the Communist totalitarian dictators by himself, he certainly played a role in that wonderful turn of events. I am happy that the people of countries like Poland, the Czech Republic, the former East Germany and Bulgaria are free. Time was when I never thought I'd see it. They groaned under oppressive dictatorships. I still don't like everything he did but I like the way he wasn't narrowly partisan, and I think all politicians can learn from this.
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:23 AM   #39
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Why is it so bad to say bad things about someone after they're dead? I mean, they're dead.
To me, it's just a basic form of human decency and honor.

I'm not saying never say anything bad about somebody who happens to be dead, but to jump right in before the body is even buried and list everything you hated about the person is just plain wrong. I can't understand anyone not having enough compassion or conscience not to see that.

But worst of all is using someone's death as a chance to bring up everything negative you could possibly say about them is one of the lowest things I've ever heard of. It's like a 'ding dong the witch is dead' mentality. This goes for everyone, regardless of politics or even if they are famous or not. I have also been disgusted at people I know in real life trashing their husband as soon as he's dead. I know one lady who still trashes him on a daily basis 10 years later. He's dead, what more do you want?
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:45 AM   #40
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joyfulgirl:

I have no problem if somebody tells bad things about dead people, no difference to me compared to say bad things about living people.
But i know that some people have problems with it and that's why i don't do it, because i respect their feelings and i have no interest in offending people just because they think different.
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:53 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten


To me, it's just a basic form of human decency and honor.

I'm not saying never say anything bad about somebody who happens to be dead, but to jump right in before the body is even buried and list everything you hated about the person is just plain wrong. I can't understand anyone not having enough compassion or conscience not to see that.
You took what I said to a whole other level. I didn't say anything about listing everything you hate before the body is buried, nor did I even mention the word hate. I just think it's worse to say negative things about people while they're alive than after they're dead. And I haven't said anything about Reagan one way or the other.
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:55 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
joyfulgirl:

I have no problem if somebody tells bad things about dead people, no difference to me compared to say bad things about living people.
But i know that some people have problems with it and that's why i don't do it, because i respect their feelings and i have no interest in offending people just because they think different.
That I can appreciate. Thanks.
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Old 06-07-2004, 12:50 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


You took what I said to a whole other level. I didn't say anything about listing everything you hate before the body is buried, nor did I even mention the word hate. I just think it's worse to say negative things about people while they're alive than after they're dead. And I haven't said anything about Reagan one way or the other.
I wasn't talking about you, only answering the question based on things I had seen in this thread and experienced in other places.
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Old 06-07-2004, 07:52 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Why is it so bad to say bad things about someone after they're dead? I mean, they're dead. I wouldn't say bad things about someone who died to their loved ones' faces but I don't get the tiptoeing around otherwise. I guess I just see death differently than a lot of people. It's completely natural and always hard to lose someone but I don't suddenly get sentimental about people I never liked just because they died. It's not like I'm glad they're dead either, I guess I just don't care one way or the other.
I agree with you joyful
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:40 AM   #45
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I suppose it has something to do with common decency and respect for human life. But then these things are rapidly slipping away in this enlightened society. I can't help feeling that you individuals that are questioning society's general rule of allowing some period of grace and respect for a recently deceased individual, would not be doing so if the president had been of a different political party, and I find that incredibley sad. Yes, death is a natural thing, but shouldn't love for a fellow human being also be? Is is so hard (or wrong) to acknowledge just for these moments in the wake of his passing, the good things accomplished by this man, even if the good are outnumbered? The sort of hatred that has been spewed here so soon after his death, in our society, is reserved only for the most reprehensible of criminals......people like Hitler, Hussein, Manson....I cannot bring myself to believe that President Reagan deserves to be classed with these individuals.
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