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Old 06-06-2004, 02:38 PM   #16
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Ronald Reagan did his part fighting passionately for what he believed in. It often was not what I believed, since I became a die-hard lefty, much more than I am now, in fact. I was jokingly named "the leader of the Eugene V. Debs Lefty Brigade" by a friend. I am not particularly proud of my political views in the early '80's, but I don't sweep them under the rug and claim I never had them. That would be dishonest. Some interesting things were going on in Eastern Europe that would take the world by storm. First, Lech Walesa started the first non-state labor union in the Communist world, Solidarity, in 1980. He went through pure hell for this. He got busted and thrown in jail, and the union was busted. The whole thing paid off when he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983. He was publicly praised by President Reagan the day after the award was announced. That certainly didn't hurt. Meanwhile the Pope had visited Communist Poland twice. He'd supported dissidents as a Cardinal in Poland, and he didn't change when he was elected Pope. He also visited the United States. Reagan helped the Pope in this cause when he decided to recognize the Vatican politically, and ambassadors were exchanged for the first time. Then Mikhail Gorbechev became head of state in the Soviet Union, and started the reforms called glastnost and perestroika, openness and more freedom. The cat was out of the bag, and there was no going back to the days of Breshnev. In 1989 Central and Eastern Europeans showed their strength and kicked their communist dictators out on their asses. In retrospect Reagan had something to do with this, I admit. I sure as hell didn't want to admit it at the time. He supported the right people at the right time. He didn't do it by himself. I think it was more moral support than anything else. I feel that credit must be given to the Pope, to Lech Walesa, to brave dissidents like Vaclav Havel (who I wanted for *my* president), and, yes, to Mikhail Gorbachev, who decided not to invade or intervene to stop the political changes in Eastern Europe. Remember, Breshnev sent tanks into Prague during the liberalization of 1968 to bring Czechoslovakia back into the "safe" communist fold. But hey, blue jeans in Moscow, Prague, Warsaw and Berlin didn't hurt.
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Old 06-06-2004, 02:44 PM   #17
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You cannot separate the good things that he did do for the country from the bad.....

JFK did some good things too, however, much of what was bad or wrong with what he did has been whitewashed because of the tradjic way he left us.

Reagan will go into the books as being a better than avergare president, boardering on the level of the great ones. Partially, because he inherited a Presidency that had been tarnished by Vietnam, Watergate, Oil Crisis, and Inflation.

Like some here I remember the gas lines. I remember watching people only allowed to fill up on certain days of the week depending on even and odd license plates on their cars.

Whatever you think of him, he did bring respect back to the office.
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Old 06-06-2004, 02:52 PM   #18
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Facts are stupid things".......Ronald Reagan.


"Ketchup is a vegetable".......Ronald Reagan


'Tis true....I deleted my original post.
It may have been a bit angry and sarcastic.
I'll try to cut down on the anger.

I remember Reagan very clearly as a president.
And in my rememberances, it was not a pretty sight.

Reagan had charisma. He read the lines given to him very well at press conferences, as any trained actor would.
He was playing the part of a president. And yes, at times,
his B-movie acting abilites shown through in flying colors.
He instilled pride back to being in American, but at what
the cost? And what sort of America?
His "economic policies" started the trend that George Bush
is happily continuing. Run up a debt........bankrupt the country.
Lying to Congress about "Iran/Contra."
Too lazy to mention any of the other "great" things Reagan did.
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Old 06-06-2004, 03:19 PM   #19
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My local paper really went to town on covering Reagan's death today. We had huge front page coverage, some more coverage inside and even a special section. It was all overwhelmingly positive, with only the fleetest mentions of some of the less-than-stellar moments of his presidency (Iran-Contra, etc.) I can certainly understand people wanting to dwell on the positive rather than the negative when someone has just passed away, but I kind of got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. I hope this whitewashed version of Reagan isn't what gets passed down in the history books, but I'm afraid that's exactly what's going to happen.
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Old 06-06-2004, 03:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Rest in peace, Ronald Reagan, and I do hope you end up in heaven...because then I think that everyone will.
That's really cold.
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Old 06-06-2004, 03:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
That's really cold.
It's a testament and joke to my confliction over the man. No frostiness intended.

But if you are looking for adoration, I'd try the other Reagan thread; the one which is more suited for adoration than this one. I am leaving that one alone, out of respect.

Melon
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Old 06-06-2004, 03:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by RockNRollDawgie
Facts are stupid things".......Ronald Reagan.


"Ketchup is a vegetable".......Ronald Reagan


'Tis true....I deleted my original post.
It may have been a bit angry and sarcastic.
I'll try to cut down on the anger.

I remember Reagan very clearly as a president.
And in my rememberances, it was not a pretty sight.

Reagan had charisma. He read the lines given to him very well at press conferences, as any trained actor would.
He was playing the part of a president. And yes, at times,
his B-movie acting abilites shown through in flying colors.
He instilled pride back to being in American, but at what
the cost? And what sort of America?
His "economic policies" started the trend that George Bush
is happily continuing. Run up a debt........bankrupt the country.
Lying to Congress about "Iran/Contra."
Too lazy to mention any of the other "great" things Reagan did.
I have stated that I believe W is the worst President of all time.

I was around for the 70s and remember much of the 60s.

Reagan had innate political skills, wrote many of his speeches or edited them to conform to his thoughts.

He did delegate. But had at least a reasonable grasp of his administration. (unlike W).

Here is a quote, "Hard work never killed anybody,
but why risk it." Self-depreciating humor.


His biggest failing; He gave ARMS to the ayatollah. That is much worst than Carterís botched rescue attempt. He might have been impeached. He had the smarts to address the American people and tell them he lied.

Clinton stole this from Reaganís playbook. They were both able to keep the support of the American people.

The 90s rabid house Republicans were not as smart as the 80s Dems.

Aside from FDR, Reagan will probably be rated the most influential President of the twentieth century.
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Old 06-06-2004, 06:31 PM   #23
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Presidents will steal from Reagan's playbook for years to come. Many may not remember, but pre-Reagan, "conservative" was a bad word - much like many on the left lament how "liberal" is used as a bad word today.

Reagan changed that. Conservatism was not the end of the world. We were told, among other things, that Reagan would lead us to nuclear war and to deficites that would never end. Both never materialized.
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Old 06-06-2004, 06:32 PM   #24
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I'm not looking for adoration.

But suggesting the man is going to hell or that if he gets into Heaven it's undeserved is poor taste regardless.
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Old 06-06-2004, 07:44 PM   #25
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You mean we have a nice thread and an it's okay to bash him thread? Separating them still isn't respectful. Regardless of which thread a person posts in, the man is still just as dead

I know we are all free to express opinions here, but couldn't his enemies have at least waited until after the funeral?
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:00 PM   #26
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Found today:

Pray for Reagan

God,

Please have mercy on Ronald Reagan and keep him in your Grace.

Allow your Angels, the thousands that died from neglectful funding of AIDS research, to comfort him and take him to your Heaven.

May you show him and his family the kindness and love, the compassion and thoughtfulness he was unable to show the thousands that needed the assistance of public funding with hospitalization and now roam the streets.

God, let the Light of Your Begotten Son shine on his casket as he lay in State for days and days in the Capitol, the National Cathedral, and in Simi Valley Ė reminding all those who see it that we are not allowed to honor the soldiers who are being brought home in caskets from the Middle East because cameras are banned.

Father in Heaven, please show him the fatherly love, forgiveness, and mercy he was not able to have toward his children.

Lord, may all the children who have passed into your Glory because they did not have proper nutrition, housing, education, or mothers who could have pre-natal care, teach him how to live in your Love and Mercy.

Heavenly Father, may the soldiers who have died from neglect because of the continuous funding cuts throughout the 80's for VA benefits be the ones to guard him and keep him and his family from sorrow and harm.

May Heaven and all its Glory show him the true meaning of your words AND ACTIONS.

In your name we pray.
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by RockNRollDawgie
Reagan had charisma. He read the lines given to him very well at press conferences, as any trained actor would.
He was playing the part of a president. And yes, at times,
his B-movie acting abilites shown through in flying colors.
He instilled pride back to being in American, but at what
the cost? And what sort of America?
His "economic policies" started the trend that George Bush
is happily continuing. Run up a debt........bankrupt the country.
Lying to Congress about "Iran/Contra."
Too lazy to mention any of the other "great" things Reagan did.
History is already proving this wrong. He was never the actor playing a role written by someone else.
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:50 PM   #28
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Whenever I feel a political debate coming on, I often back out. It's been my experience that political debate brings out the worst in humanity. We see black and white, democrat and republican, conservative and liberal, and leave our most basic and true regard for fellow man at the door while we look for a good shot to the other side. If I ever need further proof to back this belief, I'll be sure to make a copy of this thread.

You (I would name names, but you know who you are) should be ashamed of yourselves and your careless words. I hope that your life is never so important and public that people can criticize you within days of your death. Have respect and have a heart.

And grow up.
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Old 06-06-2004, 09:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by stammer476
(I would name names, but you know who you are)
Name names. I want to know who you're directing this to. I would hope that it is not me, but it wouldn't be the first time that I have elicited a negative response here.

The fact that this is in a separate thread is due to my request, as I did not want to tarnish the other thread, for those who wanted to honor him. Reagan wanted a cultural revolution and he got it; and, with anyone who was this influential (and that I will concede), there are bound to be strong emotions on both sides.

I'm conflicted. I no longer hate him, like I once did, but I am attempting to reconcile his impact on society with how this nation should move forward. This is more of a personal journey, I guess, but my beginning processes tend to be more "vocal."

Anyhow, I wanted to make myself clear, before you jumped to any conclusions, if you directed that thread at me. Some people honor a man by doing nothing but lavishing romanticist praise; I tend to do it through discussion. Pardon me if my departure from tradition is a bit discordant, but I was never one for tradition.

Of course, if one looks at Reagan and his experiment with supply-side economics and his approach to foreign policy, it appears that he was never one for tradition either. Maybe he and I have more in common than I'd like to think.

Melon
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Old 06-06-2004, 09:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by stammer476
We see black and white, democrat and republican, conservative and liberal, and leave our most basic and true regard for fellow man at the door while we look for a good shot to the other side.
i agree with this statement 100%, although i didn't think of melon when i read it. i was thinking more of wolfeden's poem that was posted in both reagan threads. i find it disgusting to make a "prayer" out of such hatred and contempt. i also agree that some people just fall in line with a certain philosophy or belief system without really taking a step back and seeing the whole picture.
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