Rock the Vote??? Military draft...? - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-29-2004, 08:13 PM   #1
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Rock the Vote??? Military draft...?

I find this info a bit funny but a little disturbing... Its a cut and paste from a blog and the web addresses are legit I think.

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Of all the contemptible things the Dems have done during this election cycle, the "reinstate the draft" rumor is the most vile. A reader forwarded to us the following email, which is being sent to a countless number of young Americans by the "Rock the Vote" people, an ostensibly non-partisan group:

YOU HAVE BEEN DRAFTED!
http://action.rockthevote.org/ctt.asp?u=906763&l=4476

This is not a real draft, but a real one may happen soon if the current situation doesn't improve.

As it is, our military is stretched almost to the breaking point trying to maintain troop levels in Iraq and around the world. If Pakistan, North Korea or other nations begin to pose new military threats, how would we expect to meet the demand for troops?

Did you know that:

* It would only take two to three days for Congress and the President to authorize a draft and set the Selective Service System's plans in motion?

* Twenty-year-olds would be the first to be inducted?

* Women are very likely to be included in the next draft?

It's up to us to educate ourselves. In the event of a draft, we won't have much time to form an opinion. And with just 34 days left until the election and only a few days left before many state registration deadlines, we need to take a stand now by registering to vote:

http://action.rockthevote.org/ctt.asp?u=906763&l=4476

Copy this URL into your web browser to get the facts about a potential draft, and to find out what you can do:

http://action.rockthevote.org/ctt.asp?u=906763&l=4476

Sincerely,
Rock The Vote
and
Alliance For Security
If there was a draft, I would accept being drafted and go but I wouldn't be ecstatic about it IMO but accepting... I believe I'm the type that, once in the military, I would probably get killed or maimed horribly in a drill or on the field. Sort of like the Star Treck guy who is in the away team. You know the no name who always kicks the bucket when Kirk and company get beamed down to search stuff out.

With that said, I think there has to be something wrong about Rock the Vote being associated with this movement.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:21 PM   #2
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Two democrats launch draft proposals to scare people and it becomes the great meme.

The draft will not be reinstated, it would be the dumbest thing to do in this situation and it runs contrary to the reforms and honing of the US Millitary under Rumsfeld.

The all volunteer force is the reason the the US has an edge over its opponents. Basically if you put thousands of people who do not want to be there on the ground morale would plummet and the operational capacity of the force would be seriously messed up.

Blackfive has more: http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/09/the_draft.html

"He's dead Jim"
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:48 PM   #3
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What disturbs me, like the blogger, is the fact that Rock the Vote, which is supposed to be non-partisan is "creating" this issue. I don't believe there will be a draft. It would be a huge political mistake for the Republicans and would crush their party IMO. No way that happens. LOL... they should have at least mentioned Charles Rangel "the democrat" is behind the idea of bringing back the draft. LOL
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Old 09-30-2004, 06:39 AM   #4
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:07 AM   #5
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The idea of the draft is not something created out of thin air. There are people from both sides that say if certain things don't change soon that we may be forced into one. If another "front on the war in terror" comes about and we need to invade, I would say a draft is almost guaranteed. Yes it's a huge mistake but what other choice would we have?

Why shouldn't Rock the Vote get involved, this is something that will affect young people directly. They're not saying that if Kerry comes in there won't be a vote. Maybe they are trying the tactic everyone else is these days and they are using fear to get young people to register. I don't agree with that tactic, but I wouldn't say it's partisan.
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:15 AM   #6
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Not partisian? Rock the Vote? Who are we kidding?
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:37 AM   #7
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Why have they endorsed a canidate before?
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:43 AM   #8
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There is a whole lotta partisianship that can take place before one endorses a candidate.

Maybe we should check their bumperstickers
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
The idea of the draft is not something created out of thin air. There are people from both sides that say if certain things don't change soon that we may be forced into one. If another "front on the war in terror" comes about and we need to invade, I would say a draft is almost guaranteed. Yes it's a huge mistake but what other choice would we have?
Yes... Democrat, Charles Rangel has asked for a draft...

Outside of him, who has said outside of a democrat, that a draft will be in the offing. I know, some people don't generally trust Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc... but they have sternly indicated no draft and the opinion that a draft is not practical. Conservative pundits have put out this case? For some reason, I doubt that. IMO, it is a democratic issue and I don't see most democrats touching that issue with a ten foot poll. If the republicans were even to mention a draft, it would be political suicide for the party.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:01 AM   #10
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Why do I look at my cut & paste information as partisan? B/C the draft is a non-issue or non-existent issue. It is mis-leading and associating the current administration with wanting a draft when it is a democratic measure and the current administration is staunchly against it.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu


Yes... Democrat, Charles Rangel has asked for a draft...

Yes he called for it but for completely different issues, he's a bit of a quack and I don't think any other democrat would ever volunteerly ask for one.


Besides this one no one is asking for it, but many from both sides are saying it may inevitable. Didn't Bush just ask for troops to start pulling out of European countries? I know I read something about it lately.

The point is our country doesn't have the manpower to go anywhere else if something happens in the next year of so, and many believe something will. Then what? So yeah I think the issue of the draft is not far fetched, but I don't think anyone is truly wanting one right now.

I still haven't seen how Rock the Vote is partisan, can someone explain? Is it because it's pointed towards young people? Because they use music?
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Old 09-30-2004, 03:28 PM   #12
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Link about military enlistments

How can a non-issue have anything to do with this campaign?
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Old 10-01-2004, 05:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
Link about military enlistments

How can a non-issue have anything to do with this campaign?
I guess you can explain that to my friends who are on their 2nd or 3rd deployments with only a month or two in between.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
Link about military enlistments

How can a non-issue have anything to do with this campaign?
I went to your link.

Your article is from April?

Here is one from acouple of days ago.

It says there is a back-door draft.



http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...092704,00.html

Quote:

"Stop Loss" Continues

Chicago Tribune
September 27, 2004

LOS ANGELES - Luis Prosper has spent more than half his life in the Army and was looking forward the prospect of a new life starting at middle age.

But that all changed when the Defense Department issued a "stop loss" order forcing some members of the country's volunteer armed forces to remain in service beyond their contractually agreed-upon term.

Like thousands of other men and women in the military, Prosper, 41, has had to rethink his future, at least for the time being.

"I was ready to retire, but I'm a soldier," said Prosper, a 25-year veteran who has reached the rank of sergeant major. "Before we give these soldiers bad leadership, I'd rather stay in uniform and do the job."

The ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are severely stretching the armed forces, a situation that some experts suggest may grow far worse within the next two years.

"In a year and a half or two years, there are going to be huge [personnel] shortages," said Andrew Exum, a retired Army captain who served in Afghanistan. "You can't keep these guys in for good."

Exum and others are worried that the stop-loss orders could dissuade current service members from re-enlisting and reduce new enlistments.

"The biggest effect will be on those who might have re-enlisted," Exum said. "The senior non-coms and majors and colonels are not going anywhere, but they are not the ones fighting this war," he said of the enlisted volunteers who make up the bulk of the fighting force.

The Pentagon issued its latest stop-loss order in June, forcing thousands of men and women to stay in the military and requiring many to return to combat duty well beyond their agreed-upon period of active service. The effect of the order has been that thousands of members of the all-volunteer armed forces no longer are serving voluntarily.

Both Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry and Arizona's Republican Sen. John McCain have condemned the administration's policy as a kind of backdoor draft.

Last month a member of the California National Guard filed suit in federal court in San Francisco challenging the Bush administration's stop-loss policy on the premise that such orders can be issued only during a war officially declared by Congress.

"We challenged the authority the government is doing this on," said Joshua Sondheimer, one of the attorneys representing the guardsman, who is identified only as John Doe in the suit in an effort to protect his privacy.

Sondheimer said his client, a former Marine who served in the current Iraq conflict, has had to postpone plans to attend college.

"His life is a bit in limbo right now," he said.

In the all-volunteer armed forces, service is agreed to on a contractual basis. Active-duty periods are specified, as is a period of reserve status. Exum, for example, served actively for four years but is contractually bound to another four years in the reserves.

Military service has been voluntary since 1973, when the draft came to an end as the Vietnam war drew to a close. And then, tours in theaters of operations were limited to one year for the most part.

"The stop-loss is having a tremendous impact on morale," said Charles Moskos, a sociology professor at Northwestern University who specializes in the military.

Moskos, who recently met with U.S. troops in Baghdad, said the demographics of the U.S. armed forces have changed dramatically since service became voluntary more than 30 years ago.

"The [National] Guard and the reserves are involved this time," he said. "It is a much more married force with families involved."

Before the invasion of Iraq, then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric Shinseki said in congressional hearings that several hundred thousand troops would be required to maintain stability in the country after full combat ended.

Shinseki's suggestion quickly was dismissed by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, a view later echoed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Currently there are more than 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. The latest stop-loss order was bolstered by a separate decision to recall 5,600 members of the 111,000-strong Individual Ready Reserve, soldiers who, like Exum, have completed their specified period of active duty but remain on reserve status until their contractual commitment is completed.

It was the first large-scale call-up from the Individual Ready Reserve since the 1991 Persian Gulf war.

The underlying problem the Army faces grows from decisions made in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. Foreseeing a changed world in which a smaller force would be adequate, the Army was trimmed by500,000 active-duty troops, about 300,000 fewer than in 1989.

Then came the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and the start of the war on terrorism. The subsequent invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq presented the armed forces with unexpected demands.

Exum, who was not affected by the stop-loss orders, has been in contact with members of his former unit, the 2nd Brigade of the 10th Mountain Division based in Ft. Drum, N.Y.

He says his friends and colleagues are doing their duty and returning to combat, but he remained concerned about the effect the new policy is having on them and their families.

Exum says that if he had been ordered back to service, he would have served. But he still feels that the stop-loss orders, while probably legal, are fundamentally unfair and are done as a less objectionable way to maintain force numbers than returning to a draft.

"These are one of those things we do for political interests," he said.
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Old 10-03-2004, 08:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes he called for it but for completely different issues, he's a bit of a quack and I don't think any other democrat would ever volunteerly ask for one.


Besides this one no one is asking for it, but many from both sides are saying it may inevitable. Didn't Bush just ask for troops to start pulling out of European countries? I know I read something about it lately.

The point is our country doesn't have the manpower to go anywhere else if something happens in the next year of so, and many believe something will. Then what? So yeah I think the issue of the draft is not far fetched, but I don't think anyone is truly wanting one right now.

I still haven't seen how Rock the Vote is partisan, can someone explain? Is it because it's pointed towards young people? Because they use music?
The United States has a total of 85 Army, National Guard, and Marine BRIGADES.

20 Brigades are in Iraq/Kuwait right now. 10 Brigades are deployed in other parts of the world to include Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Japan, and South Korea.

Thats a total of 30 Brigades deployed an engaged in vital operations. The other 55 Brigades are in the United States and some bases in Europe. While some of those 55 Brigades are either resting from a prior deplopment or getting ready for a new deployment to replace a deployed Brigade, all 55 Brigades are available if a crises were to erupt elsewhere in the world.

The Active Army and Marine Brigades are indeed stretched thin and all Brigades in the Active Army and Marines are either deployed or resting from deployment but will deploy again in the coming months. In order to ease the strain on the active duty force, National Guard Brigades should be assuming a much larger role than they have been. Out of a total of 38 National Guard Combat Brigades, only 6 are currently deployed overseas. In order to reduce the strain on the Active military, the number of National Guard Brigades deployed at any one time should be doubled!

The country has 55 Brigades it can deploy to any hotspot around the world if it NEEDS to. This may mean longer deployments for already deployed forces in Iraq or elsewhere, but the fact remains, there are large number of forces available if an emergency comes up.
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