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Old 09-24-2003, 11:30 AM   #16
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Originally posted by stagman
Well there should be a Concert against the Bush haters and anti-war people!!
I'm not suprised by the number of "Stupid" celebrities that still whinge about US foriegn policy or the War in Iraq! It just makes me sick that these people don't understand the entire situation!

Hey don't you guys remember what happened in Bosnia??!!
The world sat back and did jack all, until "you know who" came along. And by that I don't mean U2.
Good to see that you're so wise and understand the entire situation so thoroughly. How can you not complaign about the current U.S. foreign policy?? It's a complete disaster. Oh and Bono is one of those "stupid celebrities"

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Old 09-24-2003, 11:39 AM   #17
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Originally posted by womanfish


Good to see that you're so wise and understand the entire situation so thoroughly. How can you not complaign about the current U.S. foreign policy?? It's a complete disaster.
I hope you are not suggesting that "if you don't see current US foreign policy as a complete disaster, then you are not wise or do not understand the entire situation."
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Old 09-24-2003, 11:43 AM   #18
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I hope you are not suggesting that "if you don't see current US foreign policy as a complete disaster, then you are not wise or do not understand the entire situation."
Those are two seperate entities. I don't proclaim to know the entire situation - do you?

As for foreign policy, I don't really think that "you're either with us or against us" and "bring it on" is really a foreign policy at all, more of an anti foreign policy.

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Old 09-24-2003, 11:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by stagman
Well there should be a Concert against the Bush haters and anti-war people!!
I'm not suprised by the number of "Stupid" celebrities that still whinge about US foriegn policy or the War in Iraq! It just makes me sick that these people don't understand the entire situation!

Hey don't you guys remember what happened in Bosnia??!!
The world sat back and did jack all, until "you know who" came along. And by that I don't mean U2.
It's good to see someone still has an intelligent response to this issue.
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Old 09-24-2003, 01:08 PM   #20
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I can't see myself going to a concert against myself. I'd just as soon join the Idiot Club, but I think I have more self-respect.
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Old 09-24-2003, 01:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by stagman
Well there should be a Concert against the Bush haters and anti-war people!!
I'm not suprised by the number of "Stupid" celebrities that still whinge about US foriegn policy or the War in Iraq! It just makes me sick that these people don't understand the entire situation!
Don't you think it's rather arrogant to assume that because another person disagrees with your views they must either be stupid or not understand the situation?
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Old 09-24-2003, 03:12 PM   #22
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

<snip>
of Bush (or conservatives in general)
I don't classify conservatives with Bush! I think Bush gives conservatists a bad name, but I don't think every conservative is (gee which adjective to choose... warhungry? selfish?..) like Bush.
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Old 09-24-2003, 05:13 PM   #23
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"How can you not complaign about the current U.S. foreign policy?? It's a complete disaster."


Complete Disaster?

I think not. Over the past two years, the United States has removed the Taliban from power in Afghanistan, destroyed Al Quada's main base of operations there, killed or captured 2/3s of Al Quada leadership, given people in AFghanistan the best chance they have ever had for a bright future, removed Saddam from power in Iraq, successfully enforced multiple UN resolutions in regards to Iraq after a decade of failure in that area, made Persian Gulf energy supply more secure than its ever been, started a new Iraqi military/police force, started to build democracy in Iraq for the first time.

The Bush administration has accomplished more in Foreign Policy in 2 years than Clinton did in 8 years. Disaster? I think not!
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Old 09-24-2003, 05:40 PM   #24
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But France doesn't like us as much anymore....
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Old 09-24-2003, 06:09 PM   #25
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So just today Hamas has stated the Bush has given a decloration of war to them and Al Qaeda held talks and vowed "future devestating attacks" on the U.S.

Iran and N. Korea are now flaunting their nuclear programs in front of our noses, while the sole reason we entered Iraq (given by the administration) was the undisputed fact that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction which have not been found.

Add that to the fact that not only do the French hate us, but the anti-U.S. sentiment across the world is at a scary level.

And IMO foreign policy is not invading countries taking out their leaders and establishing a form of government that is completely alien to them. I'll use GW's words - It does make us look like the ugly American.

So glad our world is so much safer now.

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Old 09-24-2003, 06:15 PM   #26
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The world was just as dangerous as before. Terrorist groups didn't need Bush as an excuse to kill.

At least now we are doing something about terrorist groups.
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Old 09-24-2003, 06:16 PM   #27
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They don't need him as an excuse to kill, but now he's just an extra reason and added incentive.

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Old 09-24-2003, 08:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The world was just as dangerous as before. Terrorist groups didn't need Bush as an excuse to kill.

At least now we are doing something about terrorist groups.
No. Shooting the odd terrorist isn't doing something about terrorist groups.

I'd bet that in the last 2 years, yes, Al Qaeda has been significantly damaged, but the 'idea' of Al Qaeda has grown stronger then ever.
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Old 09-24-2003, 09:53 PM   #29
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Womenfish,

"So just today Hamas has stated the Bush has given a decloration of war to them and Al Qaeda held talks and vowed "future devestating attacks" on the U.S."

Yep, for the 100th time since 9/11. How many attacks has Al Quada been successful at launching on US territory since 9/11?


"Iran and N. Korea are now flaunting their nuclear programs in front of our noses, while the sole reason we entered Iraq (given by the administration) was the undisputed fact that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction which have not been found."

Whats your or General Clarks solution for North Korea or Iran? It be interesting to see a an alternative solution on these subject matters rather than inaccurate criticism. If you have a better idea on what to do with North Korea, lets hear it.

"Add that to the fact that not only do the French hate us, but the anti-U.S. sentiment across the world is at a scary level."

Really, is that why the world has purchased over 2 Trillion dollars worth of US goods and services since 9/11? Is that why 29 nations are working with the USA in Iraq to restore Peace and stability there? Is that why the now 26 nation NATO alliance is working with the USA to help Afganistan, working with the USA in Bosnia, working with the USA in Kosovo. Is that why the FBI, CIA working with other international intelligence organization have been so successful in catching 2/3s of Al Quada leadership?

"And IMO foreign policy is not invading countries taking out their leaders and establishing a form of government that is completely alien to them. I'll use GW's words - It does make us look like the ugly American."

Really, is that the feeling in Japan, German, South Korea over the past 60 years. Do people in Germany resent the fact that the USA defeated Hitler? How about bring democracy to Japan? Do people in Japan resent that? Do people in Kuwait resent saving their country from Saddam? Do people in Bosnia resent the USA preventing the slaughter of the population there? Do people in Kosovo resent the US preventing further slaughter there? Do the majority of people in Iraq resent the US overthrowing Saddam?

US foreign policy does involve the deployment of US troops to defend the security and stability of the planet, and yes that does sometimes involve invading countries in order to stop leaders who are a threat to the international community.

"So glad our world is so much safer now."

I'm sorry if you don't think the world is safer without Saddam and the Taliban in power. I think its obvious that more has been done over the past 2 years by the Bush administration to make the world safer than was done in the 8 years prior to the Bush Administration.
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Old 09-25-2003, 05:34 AM   #30
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What Sting2 said!!

When I say stupid people i mean those that try ignore the fact that Islamic militants have only 1 goal ands that is to kill as many westerners as possible. The same goes for Saddam supporters if there are still any. These groups have to be eradicated or stopped at least. Saddam tortured his own people. He lived in absolute luxury while not giving a damn about his people who lived in terrible conditions..... How can the world let that kind of thing go by. Saddam and his government simply did not have the right to rule any more.
Sadly the EU was too gutless and lazy to do anything.
Those European nations should still be thanking the US for saving them during WWII.. since 1946 Europe has gradually turned anti-US. It just does'nt make sense... oh and the French don't make any sense either. Chirac may as well be a member of Al Quedia!!
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