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Old 01-12-2006, 01:02 PM   #46
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yeah, i think so
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Old 01-12-2006, 05:48 PM   #47
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he should just walk around every day wearing a t-shirt that says I'm sorry


By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer

Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has sent a letter apologizing for suggesting that Ariel Sharon's massive stroke was divine punishment for pulling Israel out of the Gaza Strip.

Robertson's comments drew widespread condemnation from other Christian leaders, President Bush and Israeli officials, who canceled plans to include the American evangelist in the construction of a Christian tourist center in northern Israel.

In a letter dated Wednesday and marked for hand delivery to Sharon's son Omri, Robertson called the Israeli prime minister a "kind, gracious and gentle man" who was "carrying an almost insurmountable burden of making decisions for his nation."

"My concern for the future safety of your nation led me to make remarks which I can now view in retrospect as inappropriate and insensitive in light of a national grief experienced because of your father's illness," the letter said.

"I ask your forgiveness and the forgiveness of the people of Israel," Robertson wrote.
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Old 01-12-2006, 06:21 PM   #48
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i don't understand the uproar.

many, many people -- including Robertson, and probably a majority of the 800,000 people who watch him all the time on the 700 Club, which consistently pulls higher ratings than, say, MSNBC -- believe that the Bible is literal, that God intervenes in our lives, and that God speaks to them and tells them what to do.

i am no authority, but i am pretty certain that the Bible is filled with examples of God inflicting natural disasters on people and places because they were bad (Sodom & Gomorrah, Egypt, etc.) or as rather cruel tests of faith (Job)?

i suppose the point is not that Robertson is anything less than a lunatic, but rather that people who want to maintain their belief that the Bible is the literal word of God and yet disbelieve in Robertson have an awful lot of rationalizing to do.
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:40 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i don't understand the uproar.

many, many people -- including Robertson, and probably a majority of the 800,000 people who watch him all the time on the 700 Club, which consistently pulls higher ratings than, say, MSNBC -- believe that the Bible is literal, that God intervenes in our lives, and that God speaks to them and tells them what to do.

i am no authority, but i am pretty certain that the Bible is filled with examples of God inflicting natural disasters on people and places because they were bad (Sodom & Gomorrah, Egypt, etc.) or as rather cruel tests of faith (Job)?
The Bible also records wrath upon the bad kings of Israel and Judea. However, those are God's examples of what He has done.

Here, we are dealing with Robertson speaking on behalf of God. He is trying to bring glory upon himself.


ps. It is the inerrant Word of God
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:36 PM   #50
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


The Bible also records wrath upon the bad kings of Israel and Judea. However, those are God's examples of what He has done.

Here, we are dealing with Robertson speaking on behalf of God. He is trying to bring glory upon himself.


ps. It is the inerrant Word of God


sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. God only means to smite people when he tells us, but only he can tell us, and he only did that 2,000 years ago when the bible was being written?

you'll have to unpack the statement "God's examples of what He has done."

Robertson's statements are perfectly in line with a millenialist understanding of the Bible.


ps. this isn't about you. many of my posts have nothing to do with you.
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:42 PM   #51
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I dunno, I disagree with you Irvine. I'm sure many, many conservative Christians (and this is true of most religions, really) believe that God can punish humans in the Biblical fashion if he feels like it. The difference is that Robertson is claiming to *speak for God* and insists that a 77-yr old weighing 300 lbs (with a very stressful job) having a stroke is undeniably some kind of divine punishment. Most people that do believe God caused the flood or whatever it is still would not find his statements reasonable or worth listening to.
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Old 01-12-2006, 10:40 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. God only means to smite people when he tells us, but only he can tell us, and he only did that 2,000 years ago when the bible was being written?

you'll have to unpack the statement "God's examples of what He has done."

Robertson's statements are perfectly in line with a millenialist understanding of the Bible.
God can act at any time and in any way He wants.

We have a record of God's actions in Bible. This is the only authorized record of His acts. We can discuss actions today and attribute them to God or not, but not definitively. At best, we can match current events to the character and attributes of God we see in Scripture. It is not a process to be taken lightly or casually.

Robertson's statements have some Biblical basis, but it is presumptuous to declare definitively that Sharon's illness is a punishment from God. Conversely, it would be presumptous to definitively say that God did not act here.
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:20 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


God can act at any time and in any way He wants.

We have a record of God's actions in Bible. This is the only authorized record of His acts. We can discuss actions today and attribute them to God or not, but not definitively. At best, we can match current events to the character and attributes of God we see in Scripture. It is not a process to be taken lightly or casually.

Robertson's statements have some Biblical basis, but it is presumptuous to declare definitively that Sharon's illness is a punishment from God. Conversely, it would be presumptous to definitively say that God did not act here.



precisely the kind of rationalizing i was talking about.



who authorized the Bible?
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:26 PM   #54
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God
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:28 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
God


according to who?

who did God tell that the Bible was to be authoritative, a veritable "newspaper of record" for him?
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Old 01-13-2006, 02:11 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
God
This answer is THE defining divider amongst Christianity.

I find both sides very interesting, but have to lean towards the side of "inspired by" rather than "authored by", just by the fact alone that an infallible God couldn't write something so "left up to interpretation"... to say the least.
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Old 01-13-2006, 11:03 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This answer is THE defining divider amongst Christianity.

I find both sides very interesting, but have to lean towards the side of "inspired by" rather than "authored by", just by the fact alone that an infallible God couldn't write something so "left up to interpretation"... to say the least.


very interesting.
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Old 01-13-2006, 11:24 AM   #58
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Oh man, I was going to make a comment about Robertson being a lunatic, and we're having another discussion about the Bible . . .
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Old 01-13-2006, 11:34 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
according to who?

who did God tell that the Bible was to be authoritative, a veritable "newspaper of record" for him?
Well, God.

The easy answer is that this is a matter of faith.

There are plenty of academic materials supporting this - the scope of which are certainly beyond this thread. If you are interested, I can forward references to you when I get home tonight.
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Old 01-13-2006, 11:37 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This answer is THE defining divider amongst Christianity.

I find both sides very interesting, but have to lean towards the side of "inspired by" rather than "authored by", just by the fact alone that an infallible God couldn't write something so "left up to interpretation"... to say the least.
It may be a point of division, but From my perspective, it is an essential element. If we step away from an inerrant Bible, we open the door to a full range of picking and choosing of Scripture (and please don't reply that everyone does this, I think we need to wrestle with the entire body of Scripture).

If Scripture isn't inerrant, how can it have any authority? How can you even say that Jesus Christ is God? Christianity can quickly become a social services club or self esteem methodology.
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