nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Irvine511 said:
"Consulted" suggests a say in the decision. There was none.
I believe any conversations with Dobson & company took place after the announcement, as the right-wing backlash began.
Robertson suggests God smote Sharon
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"Consulted" suggests a say in the decision. There was none.
I believe any conversations with Dobson & company took place after the announcement, as the right-wing backlash began.
tiny dancer
Blue Crack Distributor
Someone should sew this man's mouth shut.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Loved the "God denies link to Pat Robertson" thing, MrsSpringsteen 
. Honestly, this man is just...wow. I really don't know whether to laugh or cry. What a freakin' spaz.
*Wanders off humming "Fell In Love With A Girl"*
Angela
. Honestly, this man is just...wow. I really don't know whether to laugh or cry. What a freakin' spaz.MrsSpringsteen said:
*Wanders off humming "Fell In Love With A Girl"*
Angela
cjboog
Refugee
nbcrusader said:
If anyone else with the following that Robertson has made comments like this, they would be on the news also. The fact is that even though he is a crazy nut job, he is still a major public figure.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
nbcrusader said:
Money is power.
Is this person or his group given
taxpayor money?
In the guise of "Faith Based- Charities"
not quite - "quid pro quo"
just effectively so
hiphop
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
tiny dancer said:
Really? I thought you were all for free speech.
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
My dad mentioned Pat Robertson (not by name) in his sermon today, talking about how when Robertson said God gave Sharon the stroke that the holy spirit does not work in that way. There were many nods of agreement throughout the congregation.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
U2democrat said:
Well, how did God deal with the bad kings of Judea & Israel?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
the funny thing is though, despite protestations in here to the contrary, Robertson really does matter.
think about it. i am glad that plenty of evangelicals and fundamentalists of the FYM kind have dumped on Pat Robertson. however, wouldn't it be more weird if Robertson did not believe that God smote him? after all, Robertson's version of Christianity is fundamentalist pre-millenarianism.
he believes, as do most members of the religious right, that the world is ending, and that the unification of Israel is integral to that story-line. (the Jews who don't accept Christ will all die in a second Holocaust, orchestrated by Jesus.)
he also believes, as do millions of Americans, that God directly involves himself in our lives. Sharon should be lucky he only had a stroke (being 5'7" and 300lbs obviously has nothing to do with it).
so, that aside, why does Robertson matter?
firstly, his views are NOT out of the mainstream of contemporary Christian fundamentalism, or even Republicanism. the 700 Club reaches more people than most CNN shows and has more viewers than CNBC or MSNBC -- it tends to pull a .8 in the ratings, which is about 800,000 viewers, more than most cable shows.
Fred Barnes was on the show last week.
Karl Rove checks in with Robertson over judicial nominees.
let's also notice that Robertson is not alone in his beliefs about the looming end-times. let's look at the bestselling adult series of books in the US -- the "Left Behind" series, where (my understanding is, at least) Jesus kills a whole bunch of people who don't accept him.
i know that there are many in here, probably most, who distance themselves from this kind of fire-and-brimstone mass Halocaust faith. i admire that. but i also think it's incorrect to view the more mature versions of fundamentalist faith in FYM as representative of thsoe who consider themselves as "fundamentalists" -- those anticipating the End Times who have been the engine for every electoral victory for the current Republican party.
so leave Pat alone.
he's obviously speaking for a whole lot of people. maybe not those in here. but many, many (at least 800,000, no?) out there.
think about it. i am glad that plenty of evangelicals and fundamentalists of the FYM kind have dumped on Pat Robertson. however, wouldn't it be more weird if Robertson did not believe that God smote him? after all, Robertson's version of Christianity is fundamentalist pre-millenarianism.
he believes, as do most members of the religious right, that the world is ending, and that the unification of Israel is integral to that story-line. (the Jews who don't accept Christ will all die in a second Holocaust, orchestrated by Jesus.)
he also believes, as do millions of Americans, that God directly involves himself in our lives. Sharon should be lucky he only had a stroke (being 5'7" and 300lbs obviously has nothing to do with it).
so, that aside, why does Robertson matter?
firstly, his views are NOT out of the mainstream of contemporary Christian fundamentalism, or even Republicanism. the 700 Club reaches more people than most CNN shows and has more viewers than CNBC or MSNBC -- it tends to pull a .8 in the ratings, which is about 800,000 viewers, more than most cable shows.
Fred Barnes was on the show last week.
Karl Rove checks in with Robertson over judicial nominees.
let's also notice that Robertson is not alone in his beliefs about the looming end-times. let's look at the bestselling adult series of books in the US -- the "Left Behind" series, where (my understanding is, at least) Jesus kills a whole bunch of people who don't accept him.
i know that there are many in here, probably most, who distance themselves from this kind of fire-and-brimstone mass Halocaust faith. i admire that. but i also think it's incorrect to view the more mature versions of fundamentalist faith in FYM as representative of thsoe who consider themselves as "fundamentalists" -- those anticipating the End Times who have been the engine for every electoral victory for the current Republican party.
so leave Pat alone.
he's obviously speaking for a whole lot of people. maybe not those in here. but many, many (at least 800,000, no?) out there.
Otokonoko
The Fly
I don't have a clue who Pat Robertson is, but I'm not liking what he says. I do, however, know that this is why I wouldn't like to be famous. Even when in a critical condition, people would be pointing their fingers and saying I deserved it.
Sue DeNym
Refugee
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Sue DeNym said:
Good for them
U2Girl1978
Blue Crack Addict
I'm curious, is this guy married?
the rockin edge
Blue Crack Addict
yeah, i think so
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
he should just walk around every day wearing a t-shirt that says I'm sorry
By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer
Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has sent a letter apologizing for suggesting that Ariel Sharon's massive stroke was divine punishment for pulling Israel out of the Gaza Strip.
Robertson's comments drew widespread condemnation from other Christian leaders, President Bush and Israeli officials, who canceled plans to include the American evangelist in the construction of a Christian tourist center in northern Israel.
In a letter dated Wednesday and marked for hand delivery to Sharon's son Omri, Robertson called the Israeli prime minister a "kind, gracious and gentle man" who was "carrying an almost insurmountable burden of making decisions for his nation."
"My concern for the future safety of your nation led me to make remarks which I can now view in retrospect as inappropriate and insensitive in light of a national grief experienced because of your father's illness," the letter said.
"I ask your forgiveness and the forgiveness of the people of Israel," Robertson wrote.
By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer
Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has sent a letter apologizing for suggesting that Ariel Sharon's massive stroke was divine punishment for pulling Israel out of the Gaza Strip.
Robertson's comments drew widespread condemnation from other Christian leaders, President Bush and Israeli officials, who canceled plans to include the American evangelist in the construction of a Christian tourist center in northern Israel.
In a letter dated Wednesday and marked for hand delivery to Sharon's son Omri, Robertson called the Israeli prime minister a "kind, gracious and gentle man" who was "carrying an almost insurmountable burden of making decisions for his nation."
"My concern for the future safety of your nation led me to make remarks which I can now view in retrospect as inappropriate and insensitive in light of a national grief experienced because of your father's illness," the letter said.
"I ask your forgiveness and the forgiveness of the people of Israel," Robertson wrote.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
i don't understand the uproar.
many, many people -- including Robertson, and probably a majority of the 800,000 people who watch him all the time on the 700 Club, which consistently pulls higher ratings than, say, MSNBC -- believe that the Bible is literal, that God intervenes in our lives, and that God speaks to them and tells them what to do.
i am no authority, but i am pretty certain that the Bible is filled with examples of God inflicting natural disasters on people and places because they were bad (Sodom & Gomorrah, Egypt, etc.) or as rather cruel tests of faith (Job)?
i suppose the point is not that Robertson is anything less than a lunatic, but rather that people who want to maintain their belief that the Bible is the literal word of God and yet disbelieve in Robertson have an awful lot of rationalizing to do.
many, many people -- including Robertson, and probably a majority of the 800,000 people who watch him all the time on the 700 Club, which consistently pulls higher ratings than, say, MSNBC -- believe that the Bible is literal, that God intervenes in our lives, and that God speaks to them and tells them what to do.
i am no authority, but i am pretty certain that the Bible is filled with examples of God inflicting natural disasters on people and places because they were bad (Sodom & Gomorrah, Egypt, etc.) or as rather cruel tests of faith (Job)?
i suppose the point is not that Robertson is anything less than a lunatic, but rather that people who want to maintain their belief that the Bible is the literal word of God and yet disbelieve in Robertson have an awful lot of rationalizing to do.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Irvine511 said:
The Bible also records wrath upon the bad kings of Israel and Judea. However, those are God's examples of what He has done.
Here, we are dealing with Robertson speaking on behalf of God. He is trying to bring glory upon himself.
ps. It is the inerrant Word of God
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nbcrusader said:
sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. God only means to smite people when he tells us, but only he can tell us, and he only did that 2,000 years ago when the bible was being written?
you'll have to unpack the statement "God's examples of what He has done."
Robertson's statements are perfectly in line with a millenialist understanding of the Bible.
ps. this isn't about you. many of my posts have nothing to do with you.
VertigoGal
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
I dunno, I disagree with you Irvine. I'm sure many, many conservative Christians (and this is true of most religions, really) believe that God can punish humans in the Biblical fashion if he feels like it. The difference is that Robertson is claiming to *speak for God* and insists that a 77-yr old weighing 300 lbs (with a very stressful job) having a stroke is undeniably some kind of divine punishment. Most people that do believe God caused the flood or whatever it is still would not find his statements reasonable or worth listening to.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Irvine511 said:
God can act at any time and in any way He wants.
We have a record of God's actions in Bible. This is the only authorized record of His acts. We can discuss actions today and attribute them to God or not, but not definitively. At best, we can match current events to the character and attributes of God we see in Scripture. It is not a process to be taken lightly or casually.
Robertson's statements have some Biblical basis, but it is presumptuous to declare definitively that Sharon's illness is a punishment from God. Conversely, it would be presumptous to definitively say that God did not act here.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nbcrusader said:
precisely the kind of rationalizing i was talking about.
who authorized the Bible?
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
God
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nbcrusader said:
according to who?
who did God tell that the Bible was to be authoritative, a veritable "newspaper of record" for him?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
nbcrusader said:
This answer is THE defining divider amongst Christianity.
I find both sides very interesting, but have to lean towards the side of "inspired by" rather than "authored by", just by the fact alone that an infallible God couldn't write something so "left up to interpretation"... to say the least.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
BonoVoxSupastar said:
very interesting.
coemgen
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Oh man, I was going to make a comment about Robertson being a lunatic, and we're having another discussion about the Bible . . .
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Irvine511 said:
Well, God.
The easy answer is that this is a matter of faith.
There are plenty of academic materials supporting this - the scope of which are certainly beyond this thread. If you are interested, I can forward references to you when I get home tonight.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
BonoVoxSupastar said:
It may be a point of division, but From my perspective, it is an essential element. If we step away from an inerrant Bible, we open the door to a full range of picking and choosing of Scripture (and please don't reply that everyone does this, I think we need to wrestle with the entire body of Scripture).
If Scripture isn't inerrant, how can it have any authority? How can you even say that Jesus Christ is God? Christianity can quickly become a social services club or self esteem methodology.
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