RIP Saddam

[shart1780]

He did it because he's evil. No one should feel sorry for him.

 

[phanan]

Then save it for the other thread, unless you can't comprehend the difference between the two.

 

[shart1780]

Saddam deserves the RIP. Period. He did not do it alone. He had people carry out orders. If every single person refused to carry them out, there would have been nobody to do his bidding. AGain, I sit here thinking about why he evolved into the person he became. Can you imagine what it would feel like to your soul to be him? Carry that around knowing the damage you have done to countless families.

Are you telling me that you feel SORRY for him because he must have felt bad for being an evil, murderous tyrant? Good Lord I can't believe what I'm seeing here.

Maybe you should go to Osama and give him a cookie and a hug because he must feel horrible for blowing up the twin towers.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Maybe, just maybe, the theology of forgiveness either personal or by a deity extends to all people.

 

[shart1780]

Forgiveness has nothing to do with my last point. Forgiveness and sympathy don't always go hand in hand. To assume Saddam or Osama are sorry for what they've done is just silly. Every indication points to them not being one bit sorry.

 

[BonosSaint]

I'm not in a position to forgive or not forgive Saddam. He did not directly or indirectly harm me. And I acknowledge no theological edict to forgive. I didn't mourn his death and I didn't celebrate it. But I watched the video and I saw a person approaching his death, the common denominator for all of us at one time or another, one way or another. And I felt that commonality.

 

[Diemen]

Not that I'm of the opinion that we should all forgive Saddam for what he's done, but:

Forgiveness has nothing to do with my last point. Forgiveness and sympathy don't always go hand in hand. To assume Saddam or Osama are sorry for what they've done is just silly. Every indication points to them not being one bit sorry.

I wasn't aware that the Christian thing to do was forgive, but only if the offender felt remorse.

 

[Dreadsox]

Are you telling me that you feel SORRY for him because he must have felt bad for being an evil, murderous tyrant? Good Lord I can't believe what I'm seeing here.

Maybe you should go to Osama and give him a cookie and a hug because he must feel horrible for blowing up the twin towers.

Do not put words in my mouth. Do not bring September 11th into this.

Truthfully I feel sorry for you. You cannot seam to let go of the anger.

Rest in Peace has absolutely NOTHING to do with condoning his behavior. For me, I do wonder why people in his chain of command did NOTHING to save their fellow citizens.

I think of other points in history where people stood up to the bully and refused to carry out orders.

So, yes, as I sit here, deep inside believing that justice has been served, I wonder....

How did he turn out the way he did? Why? What can be done so that it does not happen again.

And yes, I believe that the human soul is not designed to walk around bearing the guilt that he must have carried.

 

[phanan]

Dread.

 

[shart1780]

Not that I'm of the opinion that we should all forgive Saddam for what he's done, but:



I wasn't aware that the Christian thing to do was forgive, but only if the offender felt remorse.

When did I say anything about not forgiving him? I said that just because you forgive him doesn't mean you should let him off any more lightly. I brought up the point of Saddam's remose because a poster before me stated that she felt sorry for him because he must feel guilty for his actions, which I think is a silly statement. Then Wanderer was implying that that meant I couldn't forgive him, which has nothing to do with the fact that I don't think Saddam is sorry at all.

 

[shart1780]

Do not put words in my mouth. Do not bring September 11th into this.

Truthfully I feel sorry for you. You cannot seam to let go of the anger.

Rest in Peace has absolutely NOTHING to do with condoning his behavior. For me, I do wonder why people in his chain of command did NOTHING to save their fellow citizens.

I think of other points in history where people stood up to the bully and refused to carry out orders.

So, yes, as I sit here, deep inside believing that justice has been served, I wonder....

How did he turn out the way he did? Why? What can be done so that it does not happen again.

And yes, I believe that the human soul is not designed to walk around bearing the guilt that he must have carried.

The human soul isn't designed to torture, rape and murder either. To act like he was somehow on the same level as almost every human being in history is pure insanity. He was evil. I'm not saying he was less of a human being or anything, I'm saying that he was obviously on a completely different level in his heart than you and I can ever hope to understand.

I don't believe he had any guilt. Why would a soul weighed down by guilt continue to commit such unthinkable atrocities day after day after day with absolutely no signs of remorse whatsoever. He was obviously completely decensitized to the pure evil he was committing year after year. He stole women and raped them. He took their husbands and stuck their heads on spears outside the wive's windows. He cut his "enemies'" fingers off inch by inch. He lowered them into chipper shredders slowly and watched them scream in agony. He was completely desensitized to what he had become. He had even convinced himself that he was doing the right thing. He said so in court. Is that what the human soul was meant for? No!

He was purely and utterly evil and just because we can't comprehend how any human being could be so utterly disgusting doesn't mean his soul was "misunderstood".

I think what's going on here is that you can't understand the fact that there is true evil in the world. That we aren't just the furniture of the universe who can make no real choices. Saddam was evil and he deserved what he got. Would I be happy if I discovered that he made a confession of his sins before death and ended up in Heaven? Of course. I don't find joy in the thought of him burning in hell.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Does someone have good in them if there is even one person who loves them?

 

[shart1780]

Not necessarily.

 

[jimmmm]

Have any of you stopped for one minute, put your holier than thou attitudes to one side and thought about the sheer horror, pain, misery, & agony that creature inflicted on countless thousands of humans, innocent MEN, WOMEM, & CHILDREN, thousands whose lives were cut short in the most terrible of ways, leaving behind millions of grieving relatives, & friends, whilst he lived life surrounded by luxury the vast majority of people who've ever lived, or ever will live couldn't even begin to dream of.
Certain creatures throughout the history of mankind have commited crimes that have released them from any kind of form of humanity, and that creature is very close to the top of that list, IF, & its a big IF, there's such places as Heaven, & Hell, Satan himself must be feeling very uncomfortable at this moment in time, with that for company!

R.I.P. all the victims of that monster, rot in hell saddam!

 

[SpaceOddity]

Does someone have good in them if there is even one person who loves them?

Well, he was probably nice to his own children... Other than that, not so much. I'm against the death penalty, and would've preferred to see him spend the rest of his life rotting behind bars, but I honestly can't say I feel "sorry" for the guy.

 

[Dreadsox]

I think what's going on here is that you can't understand the fact that there is true evil in the world.

this kind of statement is what I find to be so personal, that unless someone shares the life with you, a ridiculous one to make.

I have faced true evil.

There are members of thisboard who have lost homes, their city, their family and friends to the face of true evil.

 

[MacHat]

True evil is very human, to make someone who has done evil things into some sort of monster and to dehumanise them only dehumanises ones attitude toward the person.

Saddam Hussein did some foul, terrible things, but he was a man. Yet another example of Hanna Arendt's "banality of evil".

Saddam did some terrible things, like I said, but I don't wish death upon anybody, or celebrate it. More than anything he's been turned into a matyr.

 

[hiphop]

I am talking about people who are very strongly in favour of war (Iraq is just one example) who very coldly and detachedly discuss things like collateral damage. And say things like, "it is war and war is horrible." Well no shit, Sherlock. But if they truly understood the scope of the horror they would comment differently, believe me, because nobody I know who lived through something like that says things they do. Usually you can pick them out when they start talking about how people have been liberated. Well, I will ask you when your house is gone and your children have been blown up, and you no longer have a job or a best friend, what is your liberty worth?

Great post. Icouldn´t have said it any better. Glad to see you on FYM

 

[verte76]

Great post. Icouldn´t have said it any better. Glad to see you on FYM

Indeed.

 

[maycocksean]

Maybe some of you could jus think of the "RIP" in the title as standing for "Rot In Pieces" and then we'd all be happy. . .

I don't believe it is ever appropriate to celebrate someone's death.

I don't think that means you're required to grieve either. Let's face it, Saddam's death is hardly ruining anybody's day, but I do think there should always be a recognition of the solemnity and finality of death. Celebrating, cheering, gloating is all inappropriate. That's the attitude and talk of someone who's watched one too many action films.

As to Saddam's status as a human being, yeah, he was a human being. It boggles the mind that people can't understand that when you paint a person (or a group of people) as completely, unredeemably evil monsters, it opens the door for all kinds of atrocities and inhumanity. Saddam, as well as other despots throughout history were able "justify" their horrible deeds by arguing that those they tortured, killed etc were unredeemably evil monsters for whom destruction was the only option. When your enemy is no longer human but Evil, anything is justifiable in defeating and destroying him. That was the philosophy Saddam, Stalin, Hitler and many others lived by. It's the same philosophy Osama bin Laden used to justify has actions. The question you have to ask yourself is are you living by the same philosophy as well?

 

[hiphop]

Saddam, as well as other despots throughout history were able "justify" their horrible deeds by arguing that those they tortured, killed etc were unredeemably evil monsters for whom destruction was the only option. It's the same philosophy Osama bin Laden used to justify has actions.

Are you saying Osama and Bush have something in common? Reminds me of the quote "axis of evil".

 

[dazzlingamy]

I'd say that (about bush and osama/saddam), but then i've been down that road before, and it gets rough.

anitram great post I agree, it is so easy for people to sit in their safe countries and see a number rolling past on the screen and go 'well thats what happens in a war' and not actually think of the actual loss of life and the people connected to the ones lost. I grieve for them all.

I also wish to talk about the hpyocrisy that I have seen in the us media surrounding Saddams execution. Salivating over the pictures and video footage of the actual execution. I turned on the TV to hear 'now, we are having people watch the tape first, then we will show it, we're just making sure whats on it and how much we can show' i turned the TV OFF. I don't want to see Saddam with a rope around his neck I don't want to see him swing or anything like that, and honestly, it sickens me that people would. I love that the us blurs out someones bum on a TV show, but is happy to show a real person getting executed on TV.

 

[CTU2fan]

^Agreed with this. Sometimes I think my country isn't all that far from the lions vs. the Christians in the Colosseum. Seriously.

Wondering if people see a distinction between the fact that he was executed and whether he'd died accidentally, or had been killed evading capture for example. Because while I'm concerned with this mockery of a trial, and even more so by the way the US government and US media have handled the actual execution, I'm not sorry Saddam is dead. I think people are a bit too quick to assume that if he lived, he'd live out his life in prison. What if the people of Iraq (if we ever give them their country back) decided to free him? Would that be a concern?

 

[U2Man]

^Agreed with this. Sometimes I think my country isn't all that far from the lions vs. the Christians in the Colosseum. Seriously.

Wondering if people see a distinction between the fact that he was executed and whether he'd died accidentally, or had been killed evading capture for example. Because while I'm concerned with this mockery of a trial, and even more so by the way the US government and US media have handled the actual execution, I'm not sorry Saddam is dead. I think people are a bit too quick to assume that if he lived, he'd live out his life in prison. What if the people of Iraq (if we ever give them their country back) decided to free him? Would that be a concern?

if they did that, some people in washington would have a few things to explain in a courtroom.

 

[A_Wanderer]

It was an Iraqi trial in an Iraqi court sanctioned by the government elected by the Iraqi people that led to his execution at an Iraqi military base without representatives of the US present - it's different than if he had been summararily executed by American soldiers.

 

[Bonochick]

This is a REST IN PEACE thread. Another thread about Saddam's execution already exists:

http://forum.interference.com/t170990.html

If these threads were to be exactly alike, they would be merged. However, I think it's plain to see that they are two different things.

 

[U2Man]

It was an Iraqi trial in an Iraqi court sanctioned by the government elected by the Iraqi people that led to his execution at an Iraqi military base without representatives of the US present - it's different than if he had been summararily executed by American soldiers.

you don't think the u.s. had anything to do with this whatsoever? come on, a_wanderer, you're much cleverer than that. the "authorities" of the current iraq are nothing but puppets.

sorry, bonochick.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Puppets of whom?

Theres a good reason that the Iraqi government protests the coalition arresting Iranian operatives.

 

[U2Man]

puppets of the goverment of the the army that controls the entire country, and without whom the country would explode.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Doesn't line up with the evidence; the polical squabbles and dealings of Iraqi politics seem quite independent of the Bush agenda.