"Right To Die" Case Of Battered Girl

[BonosBaby12]

I had heard before that sickos like this get their true justice in prison. Have heard stories from reliable sources about how the guards leak the information. See this is as complete justice. Someone has to defend the innocent.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Is that justice or vengence?

 

[melon]

Is that justice or vengence?

The latter.

Melon

 

[Sue DeNym]

Peel said Haleigh's doctors "have consistent medical opinion about her current condition" and all agree she will not regain consciousness.

Then let the poor child go.

And her abuser needs to be taken out of society, permanently. Beating her into a vegetative state, then demanding parental rights...what gall. This man is evil, and must be punished. Death penalty or life in prison, I don't care, just get him the hell away from the rest of us before he destroys another innocent life!

 

[BonosBaby12]

I see it more as justice than vengeance. Sitting around in prison being cared for is not a punishment in my eyes. And yes I know it's not a great place to be. But it's a hell of a lot more than some victims will ever have again.

 

[A_Wanderer]

What is the calculus of deserved punishment? Why do we see cases of severe crimes against individual innocents (or horses for that matter) elicit more emotion than those of mass murder. It is a fascinating little piece of human psychology, sort of the case where you choose between having one person die or having ten people die, and then being offered the chance to save ten people by sacrificing one person, the second choice is inherently more difficult for people even though the act is more or less the same. In the same manner when confronted by a man who beats an innocent little girl to a state of living death people reflexively desire to see him suffer for what he has done in a manner that will not alleviate any future suffering or bring about any justice - but would be very wary of inflicting suffering upon a mass murderer who when captured holds information that would save lives.

If you have a paedophile in custody who has abducted a young child starving them and indulging his vile instincts who has hidden them away and will not divulge their location what means would you personally be willing to take to get that sort of information, the victims life hanging in the balance? I think that in peoples heart of hearts they react very differently to dilemmas when the truly innocent are involved.

 

[yolland]

Why do we see cases of severe crimes against individual innocents (or horses for that matter) elicit more emotion than those of mass murder.
...I think that in peoples heart of hearts they react very differently to dilemmas when the truly innocent are involved.

I think that's part of it, but it's also that the possible "motives" involved here are so much less graspable to most people, incomprehensible to such a degree as to provoke nausea (BonosBaby's visceral disgust) or overwhelmed tears (Irvine). All of us, sadly, have some idea from experience of how hateful feelings can give rise to a kind of madness which makes it easy to see others as deserving of pain and suffering, but it is not an emotion most of us could ever imagine feeling towards our own children, or any children. It is simply too far outside the grasp of most people's imaginations to conceive of feeling this kind of sadism towards a child--even while recognizing that it is seldom any more rational to feel it towards an adult.

I don't think it's categorically true that mass murder, in the sense you seem to be getting at, elicits less emotion from most people. 9/11 was certainly a very emotional day for most Americans. I do think the range of emotions involved was different, though; there was a dimension of fear involved which one wouldn't feel here--partly because of the self-protective I could be next! impulse, and partly because of the unnerving shock of recognizing an emotion you can name and (to a point) grasp running underneath it all.

Personally though, I have always shied away from discussions like this--let's all join together and vent our mortal disgust at this subhuman monster--because it makes me feel claustrophobic and, frankly, a bit frightened. What I feel most of all towards cases like this is a kind of bleak and hollow despair at knowing such individuals will always exist, and that there is nothing--no goodwill gesture, no pre-emptive strike, no longterm readjustment plan, nothing--that any of us can do about it.

 

[U2DMfan]

In the same manner when confronted by a man who beats an innocent little girl to a state of living death people reflexively desire to see him suffer for what he has done in a manner that will not alleviate any future suffering or bring about any justice - but would be very wary of inflicting suffering upon a mass murderer who when captured holds information that would save lives.

Some are wary of torture because of it's drawbacks on our guys.
You know this. It's sort of the John McCain principle.

Many of these same people, maybe even McCain himself would volunteer to kick this particular guy down the street. I don't see a huge inconsistency.

 

[A_Wanderer]

You don't?

Individuals who inflict as much if not more suffering and peoples emotional response is entirely different.

Why don't we hear about the "root causes" of child abuse?

 

[yolland]

But we do, we hear about them all the time! Child abuse of the abuser usually heads off the list, followed by substance abuse and inability to manage anger. But again, these are problems no government can address, and again they are completely unrecognizable to most people as "motivations" to do such things to a child.

 

[BonosBaby12]

Just to state ahead of time I am completely respective and open to other's opinions. Realize the degree of sensitivity with this topic.

It's understandable that there is a percentage of those who abuse were abused themselves. Honestly I can't imagine what one suffers with going through that. However does that entitle them to inflict their pain upon someone else in the same manner? To me the answer is clearly no. Having been a child they know what it's like to experience that fear and feel that pain. Why would you want to go and inflict that upon any child? These children are so innocent and trusting of those who are to care for them. Anyone who has dealt with a child knows the unconditonal love they have. And for a psycho to come along and strip that child of everything just absolutely sickens me! That is why I feel it is due justice with the punishment they receive in prison. Sadly there are many in prison who have children of their own. So that's another reason why this occurrs so much. The paternal insticts kick in and they think "What if that had been my child that this happened to?". As with the case of the woman who shot her son's molester in court. She couldn't fathom the system releasing him back into society to do this to another child. Who is going to protect these children from the monster that lurks in the dark?

As for the mass murderers I personally feel extreme anger at what they do. Such as with 9/11 personally I was terrified that I could be next. Being an American you didn't feel you were safe from this horror. Than as the fear subsided the anger kicked in for me. Who really has the right to go and do this to such a large amount of innocent people? My feeling that who was ever involved and is convicted should receive the death penalty. Such as any other case involving a mass murderer or even serial killer. Whenever I hear about these senseless killings it makes me question how someone could do this. Sadly we live in a twisted society and that in itself is quite frightening.

 

[yolland]

I suppose this is the best possible ending to the grotesque closing chapter of this girl's life. On with her killer's trial.

MA high court says state can take 11-year-old off life support


By Adam Gorlick
The Associated Press, 17 January, 2006

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. – The state's highest court ruled today that the state can withdraw life support from an 11-year-old girl who was badly beaten, allegedly by her adoptive mother and stepfather.

Haleigh Poutre, of Westfield, was hospitalized in September after she was allegedly kicked and beaten nearly to death with a baseball bat.

The girl's stepfather, Jason Strickland, asked the Supreme Judicial Court last month to block the state from taking her off life support, arguing that he was the girl's "de facto" parent. He is already charged in her beating and if she dies, could face a murder charge.

The adoptive mother, Holli Strickland, who was also Haleigh's aunt, was also charged in the beating and was found dead alongside her grandmother in a possible murder-suicide less than two weeks later.

The state Department of Social Services has custody of the girl and wants to remove her from life support, citing opinions from her doctors that the girl is in a permanent vegetative state.

A juvenile court judge granted the state's request to disconnect Haleigh's feeding tube and ventilator, prompting Jason Strickland to appeal to the SJC. Doctors had said Haleigh would die within a few days without the feeding tube.

But in its ruling, the court said he had offered no evidence "that his participation in (Haleigh's) life was of a loving or nurturing nature."

"Obviously we're deeply disappointed," said Strickland's lawyer, John Egan. "They decided the case on the most narrow grounds possible." No decision had been made on whether the case would be taken any further, he said.

Haleigh's biological mother, Allison Avrett, said today: "I'm in complete shock at this point. My mind is running with things." She has said she favors removal of life support, because the girl has suffered enough.

Haleigh was adopted by her aunt about five years ago after Avrett moved to Virginia with a new boyfriend. Jason Strickland, who never formally adopted the girl, argued that as the stepfather, he should be considered a de facto parent and allowed to have a say in whether she lives or dies. Egan insisted his client wasn't motivated by the chance he could be charged with murder if the girl dies. "We should be coming down on the side of life as opposed to death," he told the justices during last month's hearing.

But the SJC said in its ruling that it was impossible to consider Strickland's intentions without also taking into account the criminal charges he might face if she dies.

"To recognize the petitioner as a de facto parent, in order that he may participate in a medical end-of-life decision for the child, is unthinkable in the circumstances of this case," the SJC said.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I hadn't heard that, thanks for the info yolland

That poor little girl

Yes, time for his trial

 

[BonosSaint]

Poor child. Looks like she had no one to look out for her.

 

[indra]

Poor kid.

I don't understand how people can do stuff like that.

 

[Carek1230]

This story is very sad and makes me sick to know a possible child murderer called a "de facto" parent aka stepfather to this child, this innocent soul, who is the one responsible for the state she is currnetly hanging on in could possibly be granted custody of her? Makes me ill. Let the state take over and remove the life support. Then let the de fact rot in prison for the rest of his life, hopefully being reminded day after day what he did.Hopfully justice will prevail here.

 

[AchtungBono]

This raises so many questions-does he have that legal right? The moral right? And obviously he has clear motivation to avoid the murder charge..

That poor little girl

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...rs_right_to_die_case_of_battered_girl?mode=PF

BOSTON (Reuters) - A man facing a possible murder charge for beating his stepdaughter so badly she is in a permanent vegetative state asked Massachussetts' top court on Tuesday to keep her alive in a case that highlights the divisive "right to die" issue in America.

Jason Strickland, a 31-year-old auto mechanic, is accused of battering 11-year-old Haleigh Poutre, whose brain was found partly sheared when she was hospitalized on September 11. Her body was covered with burns, cuts and bruises and her teeth were broken.

But Strickland, who never adopted the child, wants to be legally recognized as her de-facto father because he lived with Haleigh for four years.

If the court grants his wish, it would allow Stickland to decide whether to take Haleigh off life support and could also allow him to avoid a charge of murder.

Justice John Greaney questioned the wisdom of putting the girl's fate in the hands of her alleged abuser.

"When you talk about de-facto parent you are talking about someone who is substituting for the real parent who is nurturing and taking care of the child," he said.

"You don't talk about it in terms, as it seems to me that you have here, of someone who has inflicted injuries on the child and has harmed that child...," he said. "That would turn the whole concept completely on its head."

Hey, if Michael Schiavo can beat a murder rap for killing his wife then NOTHING surprises me anymore in the so-called "Justice" system.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

since the other picture doesn't show up anymore, here's another picture of Haleigh

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

boston.com

Haleigh Poutre's end-of-life case has been compared to the well-publicized saga involving Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged Florida woman from Florida who was on life support for 15 years before dying March 31 at age 41. Following are questions and answers about similarities and differences in the cases.

Q. How do the two patients compare medically?

A. Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 after her heart stopped from a chemical imbalance, possibly caused by an eating disorder.

She was in a persistent vegetative state, which means she was awake but unconscious. She could breathe on her own, but could not feed herself or communicate. She was kept alive only by a feeding tube and died 13 days after the tube was removed.

Haleigh was allegedly brutally beaten last fall by her adoptive mother and stepfather. According to court records, the 11-year-old girl is "virtually brain dead" and in an "irreversible coma," suggesting she has suffered more brain damage than Schiavo. She has yet to show she can breathe on her own for extended periods of time. She has severe injury to her brain stem, which controls the body's vital functions. Doctors predict she will not live for more than a couple of months longer, even if she remains attached to a feeding tube.

Q. How do the two cases compare legally and politically?

A. Schiavo's case was taken up at the highest legislative and judicial levels of both state and federal governments. President Bush and his brother, Governor Jeb Bush of Florida, intervened to keep her feeding tube attached. Schiavo also had family members appealing to keep her alive, and they sought a range of political, legal, and religious groups to help their cause.

Haleigh's case has so far remained within the state court system.

Haleigh has no family members passionately arguing to keep her alive. Her stepfather, who has been accused in her beating, has appealed to keep her life-support systems going, but the courts have said he has no legal standing.

Q. Why did the cases end up in court?

A. Schiavo was old enough to have a healthcare proxy spelling out who would make decisions for her if she became incapacitated.

But she did not designate in writing anyone to make decisions for her, leaving her husband, who said it would have been her wish to remove the feeding tube, and her parents fighting the legal battle.

Without any legal parents to speak for her, Haleigh was placed in the custody of the state Department of Social Services. All end-oflife medical care for children in state custody must be reviewed by the courts.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma..._vegetative_state_reported_to_improve?mode=PF

A day after the state's highest court ruled that the Department of Social Services could withdraw life support from a brain-damaged girl, the agency said yesterday that Haleigh Poutre might be emerging from her vegetative state.

DSS also said it has no immediate plans to remove her feeding tube.

''There has been a change in her condition," said a DSS spokeswoman, Denise Monteiro. ''The vegetative state may not be a total vegetative state."

Monteiro said Haleigh is breathing on her own, without the ventilator she has depended on for four months. Monteiro also said that doctors at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield elicited responses from Haleigh during tests performed yesterday.

They will begin more medical tests today to determine her neurological activity. Further tests, Monteiro said, could show whether Haleigh is going to be ''a miracle child."

Monteiro said that doctors did not tell DSS, which has custody of Haleigh, that her condition had changed until yesterday afternoon. She also said the agency's decision to seek court approval to remove life support was based on the ''best diagnosis that we thought we had at the time."

Many neurologists say it is rare for a patient with severe brain-stem injuries to fully recover from a persistent vegetative state that lasts for more than a month. Sometimes, patients can partially recover, such as showing increasing responsiveness to touch by frowning or moving their hand, said Dr. Steve Williams, chief of rehabilitation medicine at Boston Medical Center.

But rarely do these patients fully recover so they can communicate, feed themselves, and live ordinary lives, he said.

He added, however, that the recoveries, when they happen, are more likely with children than adults. ''There's more plasticity to their brain," he said. ''There's potentially other areas of the brain that can take over."

 

[nbcrusader]

Comatose beaten girl breathing on her own

SPRINGFIELD, Massachusetts (AP) -- A severely beaten and comatose 11-year-old girl is now breathing on her own, officials said Thursday, two days after Massachusetts' highest court ruled the state had the authority to remove her from life support.

Denise Monteiro, a spokeswoman for the Department of Social Services, said doctors have weaned Haleigh Poutre off a ventilator in the past week.

"She can intake air, but she can't swallow on her own," Monteiro said.

Haleigh has been in the agency's custody since she was hospitalized four months ago with a badly damaged brain stem that authorities say resulted from abuse. Thinking that she was in an irreversible vegetative condition, the state had gone to court to seek permission to remove her from life support.

Haleigh's stepfather, Jason Strickland, is charged with beating the girl and could face a murder charge if she dies. He has fought to keep her on life support, but this week's high court ruling said he has no say in her medical care.

"This is exactly the point we were trying to make. What's the rush? Just give her a chance," attorney John Egan said. "Medical science is not that certain. We would hope the whole process will slow down, and everyone will step back and end the compulsion to end her life."