Richard Land - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-29-2003, 02:29 PM   #1
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 04:19 AM
Richard Land

I've read a e-mail corespondance between Mr. Richard Land (President of the Ethic commision of the SBC) and Bishop Huber (german Protestant, profesor of Theology)

I was really shocked about his pro-violence Statements.
To me it looked like "Killing someone is bad if a person does it, but ok, if a country does it (as if a country isn't the sum of the people living inside)

Anyone here who wants to defend that guy or do we agree that he's a religious extremist trying to make politics?

Klaus
__________________

__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 06-29-2003, 03:51 PM   #2
The Fly
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 90
Local Time: 10:19 PM
I don't know anything at all about Richard Land. As a matter of fact, your post was the first time I've ever heard of him. But your question brings up something that I have pondered many times myself. How can somebody call themself a Christian and then advocate violence and death on any level at all?

I agree with you by the way. A country is the sum of the people living inside it.
__________________

__________________
HandMeDown is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 12:53 PM   #3
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 04:19 AM
Dr. Richard D. Land is president and CEO of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention.
That's why it shoked me even more, how can someone be in a Ethics commission and abuse christianity for advocating something like that.

But luckily it seems like we all agree here that true Christians can't advocate violence or murder.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 01:19 PM   #4
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,335
Local Time: 07:19 PM
Are these the same Southern Baptists that think I should be subservient to my husband?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 05:57 PM   #5
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,685
Local Time: 09:19 PM
Where was that commandment; "Thou shall not kill unless told to by your country" I must have missed that one.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 08:04 PM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
But luckily it seems like we all agree here that true Christians can't advocate violence or murder.
Klaus
From the guidelines for this forum...

"This is a general discussion area about U2 and their faith as found in their lyrics, their own words, as well as books written by others on this subject of their spirituality. Not to be used as a platform for debates on religion."
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:10 PM   #7
The Fly
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 90
Local Time: 10:19 PM
I dont think it's a debate. It's several people questioning some aspects of what some very public figures are saying. And mods, please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that ok here? I hope so, because thus far this conversation has been civil so I believe it should be allowed.
__________________
HandMeDown is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 10:32 PM   #8
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Discoteque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hotter 'n' hell Texas: Dallas
Posts: 3,568
Local Time: 10:19 PM
If this were a debate, perhaps FYM would be a more proper forum??

Personally, I really like Richard Land - he has a wonderful weekly call-in talk show on a local Christian station here in Dallas. I am SURE he is not advocating violence, as he is a very strong Christian. Can you post his email? I'd like to read it for myself.

And Martha, the whole "subservience" thing has gotten WAY out of whack. The word "subservient" was probably the closest English word that could be translated from the original Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, but "help mate" probably comes closer. God made a heirarchy for a reason, so that life, if it were lived by everyone according to Biblical principles, would go more smoothly. Men and women were created differently physically, emotionally, and physiologically to handle different life roles. They ARE different, it's a fact. It's just that some folks have taken the idea that they are equal to the "nth" degree. Women were made to give their husbands advice, respect, love and support, and men are commanded by God to "love their wives as Christ loved the church" (meaning the body of believers). That is a very important part of the equation that people seem to have a hard time remembering after they hear the term "subservient", but they go hand in hand. If we all were truly "equal," it would mean there would be too many cooks in the kitchen, which causes nothing but a big gooey mess.

IMO, I feel sorry for men in today's society. I think they are so confused, frustrated and angry about what it really means to BE a man today, especially in light of the feminist movement, that they don't even knwo HOW to be a real man any more. Their confusion in turn, washes over onto women, who in turn become equally frustrated and angry. Everybody's blaming everybody else. We were made differently to work together, to become ONE unit, as a partnership, with parts that fit together sort of like a puzzle. But if both partners are constantly in a struggle over who's the boss, it causes nothing but tension and frustration. Look at the way families are falling apart, the divorce rate is over 60% now, and because of that, society is going to hell in a handbasket, literally.

HTH.
__________________
Discoteque is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 10:45 PM   #9
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 10:19 PM
I disagree. I think that statements like teh following are inviting debate:

"Anyone here who wants to defend that guy or do we agree that he's a religious extremist trying to make politics?"

and

"But luckily it seems like we all agree here that true Christians can't advocate violence or murder."

The fact is that this forum is for people to share spiritual ideas, but not to say things like this that could cause arguments. Many Christians on this forum don't condone violence, but many of us do condone violence when it comes to war, such as WW2, which was fought against an evil man. This all boils down to the fact that the Christians in this forum have very different political ideas, and to state that "true Christians can't advocate violence" is to say that those who differ from him on this issue aren't true Christians. And that seems like a pretty argumentative statement to me.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 10:54 PM   #10
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,335
Local Time: 07:19 PM
So, this is the same guy and the same church, then?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 11:13 PM   #11
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 10:19 PM
Disco, honey, i disagree with what you had to say about 100% but since it's off the topic, I'm going to not get into the issue.

I'm moving this to FYM in an effort to try to be fair to the intent of this forum. It's a bit of a fuzzy call, so if you feel upset about it please do contact me via PM or email.

-sula
__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 11:24 PM   #12
New Yorker
 
Scarletwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside it's Amerika
Posts: 2,746
Local Time: 10:19 PM
Martha,

Yes.
__________________
Scarletwine is offline  
Old 06-30-2003, 11:40 PM   #13
The Fly
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 90
Local Time: 10:19 PM
actually, reading back through the thread I think you made a good call on this one Sula.
__________________
HandMeDown is offline  
Old 07-01-2003, 11:33 AM   #14
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:19 AM
The whole "true Christian" thing is potentially really explosive because like '80's said, the Christians here have alot of disagreements about alot of issues, including wars. My church, the Catholic Church is not pacifist. St. Augustine came up with a "just war" argument that is still used by many Catholics although it's not binding on all Catholics, In other words we are not obligated to believe it. We have the option of being pacifists if we like. Some churches, like the Quakers and the Mennonites, are pacifist. For most I suspect it comes down to prayer and dialogue with God and not established orthodoxies or creeds.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 07-01-2003, 12:00 PM   #15
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 03:19 AM
I don't mean to bash anyone's religious beliefs, so please feel free to yell at me if anyone of what I'm saying seems out of order. Or else just ignore it. Anyway...

Quote:
Originally posted by Discoteque
Women were made to give their husbands advice, respect, love and support, and men are commanded by God to "love their wives as Christ loved the church" (meaning the body of believers).
Is that the only purpose for which women were made? To help and support men? Are women not allowed to be independent?


Quote:
IMO, I feel sorry for men in today's society. I think they are so confused, frustrated and angry about what it really means to BE a man today, especially in light of the feminist movement, that they don't even knwo HOW to be a real man any more. Their confusion in turn, washes over onto women, who in turn become equally frustrated and angry.
How exactly do you think the feminist movement has "confused" and "frustrated" men? By saying that women deserve the same rights, the same treatment, the same respect as men do? My goodness - how frustrating it must be for men to see women paid more than them! How confusing to see that women can do the same jobs as men and do them just as well! If that's the result of the feminist movement then I feel nothing but proud of it.

I'm not frustrated or angry about whether men know how to be "real men" (which is such a subjective term that I'm sure ever man in the world has a different idea of what being a "real man" means) the only thing which makes me frustrated and angry about this subject is that sexism and oppression of women still exists in this society.

Quote:
But if both partners are constantly in a struggle over who's the boss, it causes nothing but tension and frustration. Look at the way families are falling apart, the divorce rate is over 60% now, and because of that, society is going to hell in a handbasket, literally.
Who says someone has to be boss. You were talking about partnership: why can't marriage be an equal partnership? You seem to be suggesting that women should just accept their husband is the boss and then suddenly families won't fall apart and divorce will decrease. Couldn't someone equally say men should just accept women are the boss? I'd like to see the response to that! Women are not subservient to men, we don't only exist to "support" our husbands: we are individuals in our own right, we are as intelligent as men and as capable as men, we do not exist merely to make men's life easier.

*Fizz.
__________________

__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com