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Old 05-11-2003, 04:26 PM   #16
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I agree and it was wrong of both countries to do so. I'm just confused by the idea that bullying is justifiable when carried out by the United States but unacceptable when carried out by France.

I don't think it's acceptable no matter who does it. It's not right, period. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 05-11-2003, 05:27 PM   #17
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Originally posted by verte76
I don't think it's acceptable no matter who does it. It's not right, period. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Yes. I want to emphasize that I don't like what Chirac said about Eastern Europe, but I understand where he was coming from. And he made up for it by signing the EU enlargement treaty in Athens, and I think diplomatic ties with Eastern Europe are back to normal - which I'm very glad of.


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Old 05-11-2003, 11:58 PM   #18
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Fizzing,

"It just seems strange that you justify the United States bullying countries into voting in line with the US in the Security Council, and yet are opposed to such bullying when carried out by another nation."

I don't think you understood what I said. I tried to demonstrate the difference between what France did and what the USA did. The USA after the vote was taken decided to switch foreign aid from Yemen to other countries. The French before the vote was taken threated East European countries about membership into an economic union. What France did was pure bullying in an attempt to influence a vote. What the USA did was move its economic resources away from a country that had essentially aligned itself with the enemy after the vote.
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Old 05-12-2003, 04:31 AM   #19
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I don't think you understood what I said. I tried to demonstrate the difference between what France did and what the USA did. The USA after the vote was taken decided to switch foreign aid from Yemen to other countries. The French before the vote was taken threated East European countries about membership into an economic union. What France did was pure bullying in an attempt to influence a vote. What the USA did was move its economic resources away from a country that had essentially aligned itself with the enemy after the vote.
The US threatened Yemen prior to the vote. They told Yemen before the vote that if it voted in a way which displeased the United States then the US would withdraw aid from that country. That's bullying, just as France threatening East European countries was bullying. I think both countries were wrong. That said, it's interesting that Chirac actually agreed to EU enlargement anyway...
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Old 05-12-2003, 04:33 AM   #20
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Old 05-12-2003, 09:43 PM   #21
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Fizzing,

"They told Yemen before the vote that if it voted in a way which displeased the United States then the US would withdraw aid from that country"

Can you show me the diplomatic transcript or document that proves this?
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Old 05-13-2003, 04:31 AM   #22
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STING,
I've read about this in numerous books and academic journal articles on international politics. Most of the journals aren't available online without a subscription.

However - you acknowledge that the US withdrew its aid from Yemen after the UN vote - do you really think it likely that the US wouldn't have indicated to Yemen prior to the vote that this would be a consequence of them not voting with the US?
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Old 05-13-2003, 07:46 PM   #23
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Fizzing,

"However - you acknowledge that the US withdrew its aid from Yemen after the UN vote - do you really think it likely that the US wouldn't have indicated to Yemen prior to the vote that this would be a consequence of them not voting with the US?"

Certainly.

"I've read about this in numerous books and academic journal articles on international politics. Most of the journals aren't available online without a subscription."

I'm not interested in an authors opinion or what they infer based on X, Y, and Z. I'm looking for unmistakable proof for your claim. We have people here who claim that the US Diplomat to Iraq specifically told Hussien that it was ok to invade Kuwait. Looking at the transcript of the conversation, we know that is in fact false. Yet, many journals and magazines decided to print something different.
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