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Old 07-03-2003, 05:40 PM   #16
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STING2:

ok fair enough, maybe the WMD are buried in the middle of the dessert and we won't find them for another 5 years.

but don't you agree that the general world opinion of the united states since the war has gotten even more negative?
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Old 07-03-2003, 07:12 PM   #17
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The hiding and disposing of the weapons are-Commonsense for some to grasp-Rocket Science for others and a polictical soapbox for even others.

Atticus.
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Old 07-04-2003, 03:18 PM   #18
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JOFO,

"but don't you agree that the general world opinion of the united states since the war has gotten even more negative?"

Perhaps, but that won't last. France is already spending millions of dollars to attract Americans to vacation in France.
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Old 07-04-2003, 04:13 PM   #19
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your right sting. absolutely, and im not being sarcastic. but its the way your government works. america believes people have short term memory and everything will work itself out after a while, and for the good majority of the time it works. but it wont always.
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Old 07-05-2003, 03:08 PM   #20
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I was for the war.....
I still am....But for reasons that were never expressed by this administration.

As to the failings of this administration:

*They wanted us to believe we were in IMMEDIATE DANGER (we were not). This is why I wanted Congress to have a formal declaration of War. We were invading another country, and in my opnion, since it was not an immediate situation, use of force was too little.

*They acted without the support of the UN(the latest resolution was not an endorsement of the action we took, I am not interested in debating it! Here is what I base my opinion on,http://www.asil.org/insights/insigh107.htm .

* Postwar planning SUCKS because we acted without the FULL support of the UN. Not only the UN, but other ARAB nations sending in troops through the ARAB league would have given us more legitimacy at this point.

*And in my Opinion the POLITICAL Handlers of this President have too much power over the decisions that are being made. That is why so much MMISINFORMATION was worked into the case presented. I wish I could find the article, but NEWSWEEK even reported sometime ago that Colin Powel was so nervous about this, he had his own people researching everything that he was presenting to the UN.


SO where does that leave me? I am proud of the job that the servicemen and women have done in Iraq, for purely humanitarian reasons. I predict that more servicemen and women will DIE before we leave Iraq than dies in the entire WAR. This IS the President's fault, and I believe directly because of the things I listed above.

Peace
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Old 07-06-2003, 05:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I predict that more servicemen and women will DIE before we leave Iraq than dies in the entire WAR.

Peace
Damn.
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Old 07-09-2003, 07:10 AM   #22
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STING2:
The world will forgive the US but they won't forget - and lots of people will remember it next time.
People who hated the US before this war will do so even more after the war. These are the seeds your president planted for the next generation of terrorists.

Klaus
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Old 07-09-2003, 10:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
STING2:
The world will forgive the US but they won't forget - and lots of people will remember it next time.
People who hated the US before this war will do so even more after the war. These are the seeds your president planted for the next generation of terrorists.

Klaus
Klaus,

It is a shame that your random Joe in Palestine or Saudi Arabia doesn't like the US. But random Joes and potential terrorists are different subspecies of human, and I really don't think the events of the last two years are going to turn many "random Joes" into new terrorists. Meanwhile, the terrorists already had plenty of reasons to hate the US (remember, the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993).
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Old 07-09-2003, 02:47 PM   #24
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speedracer:
Take a look at the life of Osama Bin Laden, think how he started his "career" and why he turned against the hands that feed him. Then think about "random Joe" in Saudi Arabia again.

The terrorists had plenty of reasons to hate the US and there were manymany terroristic activities against the US - long before '93. Lots of them were stoped by various secret services over the globe, some of them not (Lockerbee Pan Am for example).

Klaus

p.s. they are all Homo Sapiens Sapiens - they are not born as Homo Sapiens Terorisiensis
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Old 07-09-2003, 06:00 PM   #25
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Klaus,

"The world will forgive the US but they won't forget - and lots of people will remember it next time.
People who hated the US before this war will do so even more after the war. These are the seeds your president planted for the next generation of terrorists."

The world does not need to forgive the USA because the USA had done nothing wrong. How many people do you really think want to become terrorist because Iraq has been liberated from one of the worst dictators in history. Rather than planting seeds for terrorist, Bush is rooting them out, unlike many of our friends in Europe. Most Europeans still like to let problems grow until they are uncontrollable, just as they did in the 1930s. The USA is not in the business of appeasement.
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Old 07-09-2003, 06:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
speedracer:
Take a look at the life of Osama Bin Laden, think how he started his "career" and why he turned against the hands that feed him. Then think about "random Joe" in Saudi Arabia again.
If I remember correctly, ObL turned against the US because the US committed the unconscionable sin of --gasp!-- putting military bases on the holy land of Saudi Arabia. (Never mind that their purpose was to prevent Saddam Hussein from attacking Saudi Arabia.)

Instead of pandering to dictators and terrorists, maybe the peoples of the world should focus on discrediting and destroying the poisonous strains of fanatical "Islam". You know, the ones that proclaim "there is a Zionist conspiracy to take over the world", "kill the infidels", "an Israelite's favorite drink is Arab blood", etc.
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Old 07-09-2003, 07:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I .

SO where does that leave me? I am proud of the job that the servicemen and women have done in Iraq, for purely humanitarian reasons. I predict that more servicemen and women will DIE before we leave Iraq than dies in the entire WAR. This IS the President's fault, and I believe directly because of the things I listed above.

Peace


Being a sceptic where authority is concerned and especially politicians, the inability of the admin. to demonstrate in a tangible way the threat of Sadaam was a major reason I protested the war, especially with the former head of the inspection team refutting the "facts" the admin. used. The other was the lack of OK and involvement by NATO and the UN.

Now we are stuck in a QUAGMIRE with no outlet in sight.

What happened to a Iraqi intermeddiate gov't?
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Old 07-10-2003, 05:44 AM   #28
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speedracer:
This is just the "last episode" of the game.
Do some research and look who convinced arabs to start djihad anyway

Sting2:

Quote:
...because the USA had done nothing wrong
Except Jesus there was no human on earth who did nothing wrong - so i don't believe that the US president is the reincarnation of him

Klaus
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:54 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
speedracer:
This is just the "last episode" of the game.
Do some research and look who convinced arabs to start djihad anyway

ObL and al-Qaeda's stated aims are to force the US military out of Saudi Arabia. They didn't start taking up the cause of the Palestinians until recently, and Palestinians are for the most part very cynical of ObL's attempts to curry their favor.

The rest of the Middle East terrorists are motivated by a deep-seated, partially historical and mostly fanciful hatred of Israel and its allies. It's true.
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Old 07-10-2003, 11:39 AM   #30
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Go back to the time when Mr. Osama Bin Laden was about 20 years old, think about how he was convinced to fight in Afghanistan with the Mujahedin instead of enjoying his Life on a Luxurious Motorboat at Monte Carlo or flying with his private Jet to Aspen for skiing.

Klaus
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