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Old 07-28-2007, 07:16 PM   #16
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Originally posted by anitram
So although youth voting rates are depressing, what happens in 20 years? This is why the Republicans have the clock running against them, regardless of whether young people vote next November.
I agree the clock is running on the GOP due to demographics. Another factor is the huge potential voting bloc of illegal immigrants that continue to stream into the country. Advantage = Democrats.

On the other hand, Winston Churchill had this to say: 'Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.' Political views do evolve over the years.

Time will tell
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Old 07-28-2007, 07:23 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Bluer White

Another factor is the huge potential voting bloc of illegal immigrants that continue to stream into the country.
Care to explain? Can you register if you are illegal?
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Old 07-28-2007, 09:03 PM   #18
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And that is predicated upon a political party being a static entity, which it is not, social norms may change but it wont transform into a one party state.
Well as I stated, the Canadian conservatives woke up and smelled the coffee. However, there is absolutely no indication the GOP is modifying their social views, even slightly. If anything, they're leaning further right, continuing to pander to the religious voters, and so on.
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Old 07-28-2007, 09:57 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Bluer White
I agree the clock is running on the GOP due to demographics. Another factor is the huge potential voting bloc of illegal immigrants that continue to stream into the country. Advantage = Democrats.
Illegal immigrants can't vote, but legalized immigrants, I'm sure, won't vote for the party that profiles them as "default criminals."

Quote:
On the other hand, Winston Churchill had this to say: 'Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.' Political views do evolve over the years.

Time will tell
The only trouble with Churchill's quote is that the entire definition of "liberal" and "conservative" is not constant, and political parties, which are probably more defined out of spite for the other, rather than any consistent platform, have often traded positions over the generations.

In addition, while we can identify "socially conservative" views, what are the economically "conservative" ones? Is that the "pro-globalism" camp or the "pro-protectionism" camp? I'd probably argue, as objectively as possible, that the "pro-protectionist" camp is the "conservative" of the two, as globalism is a standard by which we'd deem an economy to be "liberalized." If that's the case, then I'd argue that Churchill's quote gets trumped by the adage, "You can't stop progress."

And that's certainly the case, as I see it. "Social conservatives" are fighting a losing battle, just as each generation's social conservatives have lost the battle to keep slaves, ghettoize Jews, or marginalize women. Likewise, "economic conservatives," if you define them as "protectionists," are fighting a losing battle, as well, because we live in an increasingly "borderless" world.
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:36 PM   #20
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Illegal immigrants can't vote, but legalized immigrants, I'm sure, won't vote for the party that profiles them as "default criminals."



Yeah, that post puzzles me, I'm hoping he'll clarify, otherwise it just sounds like the underlying racism that seems to plague many Republicans.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:09 AM   #21
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In many states all you need to register to vote is a drivers license. It's not difficult.

Let's not derail the topic of the thread, young Americans voting tendencies. I was just pointing out another bloc who could have as great an impact.
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Well as I stated, the Canadian conservatives woke up and smelled the coffee. However, there is absolutely no indication the GOP is modifying their social views, even slightly. If anything, they're leaning further right, continuing to pander to the religious voters, and so on.
Well really that's a smart strategy for the GOP. They're continuing to cater to those older socially conservative fundie types, because the younger cons who are less concerned with social issues aren't voting. When the young economic conservatives start voting and show that they're a valuable demographic the Republican party might respond...
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:36 AM   #23
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Isn't the point that there are very few "young economic conservatives"? I mean, there are less voters, but it's not that drastic.
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram

But this is a generation which grew to accept different social issues, that their parents and grandparents may have rejected. So although youth voting rates are depressing, what happens in 20 years?


i'd like to agree, but i'm struck at how the children of the 1960s ultimately gave us Reagan 20 years later.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:29 AM   #25
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Isn't the point that there are very few "young economic conservatives"? I mean, there are less voters, but it's not that drastic.
Do you think so? You're younger than me so maybe I'm off-base, but I get the impression that there are a lot of young people who are conservative economically (low tax, less spending), but they're not traditional "conservatives" in that they're pro-choice, they favor legalizing same-sex marriage, etc. I would think those people would be the new Republicans, but they're turned off by the party's fixation on social issues that they don't agree with.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:41 AM   #26
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but I get the impression that there are a lot of young people who are conservative economically (low tax, less spending),
Do these people still exist? Who are they voting for? Surely not this administration...
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:29 AM   #27
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Do you think so? You're younger than me so maybe I'm off-base, but I get the impression that there are a lot of young people who are conservative economically (low tax, less spending), but they're not traditional "conservatives" in that they're pro-choice, they favor legalizing same-sex marriage, etc. I would think those people would be the new Republicans, but they're turned off by the party's fixation on social issues that they don't agree with.


they've been called "South Park Republicans."

it's a term from 2001/2, and over the past 5 years, the Republican Party and it's total intellectual bankruptcy and manifest incompetence has demonstrated that it's not much of a home for these folk.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:27 PM   #28
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I don't think either party speaks directly to young voters enough. Democrats seem to make more of a cursory effort. The abortion debate resonates, but Republicans probably aren't getting that young woman's vote anyway, if she isn't an evangelical.

The youngster vote can't be relied on to deliver a win, and they don't have a ton of money to contribute to campaigns. Makes it tough to get attention.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:33 PM   #29
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The whole two party system is a complete train wreck. That's the bottom line.
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:37 PM   #30
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True, but anything greater inevitably prevents politicians from consolidating power and excusing their own excesses and that is obviouly in nobodies interest, well except for the electorate, but as if they matter
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