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Old 10-09-2006, 05:31 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Irvine511





oh STING, even Colin Powell thinks Iraq is in the midst of a Civil War.


.
(Applause.)[/q] [/B]
The United States military understands what a Civil War is, Huffington Post does not. Bosnia was a Civil War which the United States military put an end to, Iraq currently is not despite the sectarian violence in one province.
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Old 10-09-2006, 05:38 PM   #32
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The United States military understands what a Civil War is, Huffington Post does not. Bosnia was a Civil War which the United States military put an end to, Iraq currently is not despite the sectarian violence in one province.


the United States military has ever interest in trying to describe the conflict as anything other than a civil war, for that would be to admit their failure. others, those with no conflicts of interest in the presentation of reality, including those on the right who initially supported the administration, like Colin Powell, beg to differ with you (and would probably find your dismissal of the violence in Iraq tremendously insulting):

[q]Iraq is now in a civil war. Thirty thousand Iraqis have died there in the past three years, more than in many other conflicts widely recognized as civil wars. The number of internal refugees, mostly Sunni victims of ethnic cleansing, has exploded over the past few months, and now exceeds a quarter of a million people. (The Iraqi government says 240,000, but this doesn't include Iraqis who have fled abroad or who may not have registered their move with the government.) The number of attacks on Shiite mosques increases every week: there have been 69 such attacks since February, compared with 80 in the previous two and a half years. And the war is being fought on gruesome new fronts. CBS News's Lara Logan has filed astonishing reports on the Health Ministry, which is run by supporters of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. According to Logan, hospitals in Baghdad and Karbala are systematically killing Sunni patients and then dumping their bodies in mass graves.

Iraq's problem is fundamentally political, not military. Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds need a deal that each can live with. Sen. Joseph Biden has outlined an intelligent power-sharing agreement, but what he, or for that matter George Bush, says doesn't matter. Power now rests with the locals. And the Shiites and the Sunnis have little trust in one another. At this point, neither believes that any deal would be honored once the United States left, which means that each is keeping its own militias as an insurance policy. If you were a Shiite, having suffered through a brutal insurgency and an incompetent government, would you give up your weapons? If you were a Sunni, having watched government-allied death squads kill and ethnic-cleanse your people, would you accept a piece of paper that said that this government will now give you one third of Iraq's oil revenues if you disarm?[/q]
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Old 10-09-2006, 06:04 PM   #33
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the United States military has ever interest in trying to describe the conflict as anything other than a civil war, for that would be to admit their failure. others, those with no conflicts of interest in the presentation of reality, including [/q]
You tend to get a far more intelligent and unbiased perspective from the military than you will from any other source. The military is there to serve period, they have nothing to sell for profit and are not running for political office. They have access to more information than most people and are on the ground in Iraq in numbers that outnumber any other single organization or group. They have been involved in Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti, Afghanistan, Somalia just to name a few places over the past 15 years. They understand the difference between Civil War and sectarian conflict. They acknowledge the possibility of Civil War in Iraq, but from their experience in working on these issues in various parts of the globe, they know the current situation cannot be described in those terms.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:15 AM   #34
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Oh god...Bono just found another subject that requires another 20 minutes of mid-concert speeches!
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Old 10-10-2006, 02:05 AM   #35
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You tend to get a far more intelligent and unbiased perspective from the military than you will from any other source. The military is there to serve period, they have nothing to sell for profit and are not running for political office.
You can't seriously believe this 100%. The military still has to protect image, don't kid yourself. They have to sell success.
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Old 10-10-2006, 02:06 AM   #36
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Oh god...Bono just found another subject that requires another 20 minutes of mid-concert speeches!
Seriously doubt it.
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Old 10-10-2006, 02:24 AM   #37
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You can't seriously believe this 100%. The military still has to protect image, don't kid yourself. They have to sell success.
No, no, that Donald Rumsfeld is nothing if not an honest man. He wouldn't spin a thing to suit his own needs.
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:45 AM   #38
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Originally posted by Irvine511
so ... almost 5 years after the chest-thumping "Axis of Evil" speech, NoKo has nukes, Iran is well on its way, and Iraq is now in the midst of a Civil War.

But the world is safer for nuclear testing. Sounds like a good campaign slogan or something.

And he still can't pronounce it
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Old 10-10-2006, 11:56 AM   #39
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No, what the United States dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was about 15 Kilotons in strength, most French nuclear weapons would be about 250 Kilotons in strength.
why don't i believe you?
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Old 10-10-2006, 12:46 PM   #40
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You can't seriously believe this 100%. The military still has to protect image, don't kid yourself. They have to sell success.
Their not selling ANYTHING! Their defending the country with their lives! Its incredible how many myths there are about the military in the civilian world. Certainly, there are a small number individuals in the military who may engage in such things, but not as an organization.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:11 PM   #41
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Their not selling ANYTHING! Their defending the country with their lives! Its incredible how many myths there are about the military in the civilian world. Certainly, there are a small number individuals in the military who may engage in such things, but not as an organization.


small numbers of people like Donald Rumsfeld.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:15 PM   #42
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why don't i believe you?
The United States typically has 250 Kiloton yields on average for most of its strategic nuclear warheads. I don't think the French are really much different in that regard. During the Cold War, the Soviets would average about 1 Megaton or 1,000 Kilotons per startegic nuclear warhead because they were not as accurate as western warheads and they needed the extra yield to insure the destruction of the target if there was a miss by a moderate distance.

Short Range Nuclear Warheads and battlfield nuclear warheads will often have yields as small or smaller than what was used in World War II. The smallest nuclear weapon ever fielded by the United States was a 155 mm artillery shell with a yield of about 1 Kiloton. Considering the range of artillery, you don't want to use a yield that would not have any immediate impact on the area your firing from.

But hey, if you think these average yield totals are wrong, go look it up yourself.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:38 PM   #43
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gotcha - because you wrote that the US size was 15 kilotons and that the French was 250 and that appears to be a large difference.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:46 PM   #44
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...uclear_weapons

just thought i'd share that.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:05 PM   #45
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Its incredible how many myths there are about the military in the civilian world. Certainly, there are a small number individuals in the military who may engage in such things, but not as an organization.
This isn't myth coming from a civilian, this is fact coming from a military family. You don't think they silence failed attacks? Or silence those individuals who break rank? What about the Pendleton Eight?

If the military wasn't worried about image and didn't sell a thing this would all be free information, but it's not.

And this isn't an attack on the Military, it's just a fact that all organizations have to sell something.
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