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Old 03-24-2006, 06:19 PM   #1
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Religon

Ok. I am Catholic. Gotta get that out of the way. Now I have not been to church in a long time.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but Christianity, Islam and Judaism were all created by men, UNLESS they were instructed by God to create these religons.

Why do we need to go to church, the mosque or synagogue to pray and worship god? Did jesus not say if you destroy my fathers temple it will be restored in 3 days? (something like that) well he was talking about an inner temple not something made of stone.

So why do we need religon in the first place, when we can worship god in our own way with out having to go to a place of worship?
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:32 PM   #2
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Religion originated out of less-than-altruistic origins. A lot of it was to give authority to royal dynasties by tying those in power to a godly lineage. As such, not only would the ruling class be beyond questioning, it allowed for the justification of corruption and tyranny from the ruling class.

In the case of the Bible, a lot of it was about giving a people without a history...a history. Coming out of 300 years of exile returning to a homeland they never knew, it was comforting to people to know that they had a past.

But on top of it, Zoroastrian purity codes were transformed into "Mosaic Law," which was typical behavior for Cyrus the Great, who believed it was best to subvert local religions rather than having forced conversions. It was a smart tactic for his day, because his empire was relatively peaceful compared to the empires he conquered.

Basically, religion is an early form of government. There was no such thing as "church and state." They were one in the same, and attributing your laws as coming from God was easier than trying to justify an unpopular and/or repressive law on a secular level. Who are you to "question God"?

As such, I laugh at the idea of scriptural inerrancy.

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Old 03-24-2006, 06:42 PM   #3
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Re: Religon

Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
So why do we need religon in the first place, when we can worship god in our own way with out having to go to a place of worship?
I wanted to answer this part separately.

The answer is that not all religions demand a place of worship. If you don't believe in hierarchical authority, you're really free to worship as you wish, with or without the church.

Melon
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:46 PM   #4
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My mom is always wondering why I dont go to church anymore. I tell her I do by going to the forest or beach and taking photos.
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:51 PM   #5
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Originally posted by Justin24
My mom is always wondering why I dont go to church anymore. I tell her I do by going to the forest or beach and taking photos.
For Catholicism, in particular, there was a strong emphasis on worship, because of the belief that man cannot communicate with God without an intercessor--the priesthood. As such, their theology inextricably tied God to their authority.

Protestantism did away with that idea, so I'm not sure if Catholicism has changed in that regard since Vatican II. It could be why there's been less emphasis on saints since then, however, since saints were also considered intercessors on behalf of God.

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Old 03-24-2006, 11:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


For Catholicism, in particular, there was a strong emphasis on worship, because of the belief that man cannot communicate with God without an intercessor--the priesthood. As such, their theology inextricably tied God to their authority.
I admire Catholicism for many, many reasons, but this is probably the main reason, if not the only reason I could never convert to Catholicism. Thankfully, my particular Protestant sect has this thing called General Revelation and it means that God is revealed through creation itself, therefore you aren't obligated to go to church, or even read the Gospel, in order to be a Christian and accept the grace of Christ.

For centuries, people have twisted and tainted this idea, taken it out of context (think TULIP - limited atonement, the doctrine of Election), ignored what John Calvin really meant and the context in which he wrote, but in my head as well as my heart I know this to be true and I've experienced its truth.

A church, to me, serves two main purposes: a community that encourages accountability and a place for spiritual growth. Think of it this way - all humans are born with the potential to do algebra and memorize the locations of each country, but you don't inherently know this unless you go to school. Not knowing these kinds of things doesn't make you less of a person, or not as good of a person, but it's best to exercise our minds and grow intellectually. Likewise, all people have access to God's grace through His creation, you can take it or leave it, but we also have the opportunity to grow spiritually through becoming part of a church community. As for accountability, that's pretty self-explanatory. Most people aren't very good at monitoring themselves and getting help with things they really need help with.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I tell her I do by going to the forest or beach and taking photos.
that's the most admirable thing you've ever said. seriously.
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I tell her I do by going to the forest or beach and taking photos.
If that's your form of worship that's fine.
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
My mom is always wondering why I dont go to church anymore. I tell her I do by going to the forest or beach and taking photos.
Individual time with God is wonderful. Soaking in the majesty of His creation can be meaningful at many levels.

But God did not call us to live and worship alone. His call is for us to gather together. The benefits to this were highlighted by Livluv above: growth and accountability.

As part of a collective group, you can hear different messages from the same passage of Scripture as God speaks through different people. This kind of growth is invaluable.
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
As part of a collective group, you can hear different messages from the same passage of Scripture as God speaks through different people. This kind of growth is invaluable.
Actually, the idea of worship is the exact opposite: as part of a collective group, any different messages can be henceforth silenced. The church exists to maintain uniformity in thought.

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Old 03-25-2006, 07:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Actually, the idea of worship is the exact opposite: as part of a collective group, any different messages can be henceforth silenced. The church exists to maintain uniformity in thought.

Melon
I agree to a point. The collective group serves as check and balance to maintain beliefs articulate in a Statement of Faith.

On the other hand, I've heard many message taken from the same passage of Scripture. Not contradictory messages, but different elements are explored.

For example, looking at the prodigal son from the viewpoint of the father, the older son, the younger son and the cultural norm of the day (which is consistent today).

Sitting alone with you Bible won't give you the depth or texture to passages that comes from hearing from others.
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Old 03-25-2006, 07:33 PM   #12
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What about non-christian faiths? How do they compare when it comes to group worship?
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:43 PM   #13
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I'm very apathetic towards organized religion. It actually exhausts me, particularly the constant pissing match of whose is bigger and better and more true. I've come to a point where I try to live a life of faith and as for not participating in group worship or Scriptural evaluation - well let God sort that out when I leave this place.

And never have I been more at peace, to be honest.
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
What about non-christian faiths? How do they compare when it comes to group worship?
People need other people and are better off with other people. I think non-Christian organized groups can serve the same purpose as Christian churches: growth and accountability. Many other types of groups serve the same purpose: assigned groups in school, book clubs, new mothers clubs, a jogging club, etc. Going to a Christian church and belonging to that group is simply a means of experiencing growth and accountability in that particular part of your life.
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
People need other people and are better off with other people.

You reckon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermit#Hermits_in_religion
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