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Old 05-15-2005, 04:41 PM   #46
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
Oops, sorry, Crusader. I was answering Beli's post.
Its actually 7:39am on a Monday morning here.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli


Its actually 7:39am on a Monday morning here.

Even worse for you.
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Old 05-15-2005, 05:17 PM   #48
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I would not be so patronising as to suggest I know something that you don't.
Yes, you are. You do know something I don't. You know there is no God.
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Old 05-15-2005, 05:27 PM   #49
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Yes, you are. You do know something I don't. You know there is no God.
No I don't. I believe there is no God. I don't know there is no God.
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:08 PM   #50
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I don't know the Creed song you are referring to (I do strongly believe though that you listening to creed at all is an issue that can't be explained and needs to be rectified), but I understand the U2 thing for sure. The themes of a lot of U2's 'religious' songs, particularly through the 90's, were certainly not the 'happy clapper' type. They're about temptation away from a belief or faith, and questioning that belief and faith. 'Wake Up Dead Man' - just the fact that he's referring to him as a dead man flies in the face of the single main point of Christian beliefs. It's a sad song, and its really Bono shaking his fist at the sky and saying 'im losing faith here', a feeling of desertion and loneliness. There are plenty of songs - or even just lines in songs - during that Achtung/Zooropa/Pop period that have a similar feeling and i think thats a universal thing, but not necessarily a religious thing, and thats why you like the songs, despite not sharing the christian focus that Bono has. The God shaped hole term is clumsly in this sense. Its a God shaped hole for Bono, and for many others, but really it's a spiritual/soul shaped hole for everyone, filled in different ways, but we all try to fill it. That can have absolutely nothing to do with religion. The other reason why those songs are universal is because there is such and intense feeling of searching and desertion or betrayal. I don't think there'd be anyone here who hasn't sat awake at 2am asking similar questions to Bono, but maybe not about your God, maybe about a partner or a friend or a family member or just your whole direction in life. Something you've put so much into, so much belief and faith, and then to have the intense feeling that that thing has deserted you or done you wrong or may never have been there in the first place.

Anyway, I don't think there's any need to question why you like these songs, the answer is simple and it lies in the power of truly great music, particularly U2's music, and particularly U2's music during the 90s (sorry 80sU2isBest).... but not Creed though. Can't understand that, sorry.
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:21 PM   #51
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Earnie Shavers' post....


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Old 05-15-2005, 06:36 PM   #52
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
Earnie Shavers' post....


. Well said, Earnie.

Angela
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:38 PM   #53
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oooh...I just looked at this thread for the first time since posting....

Guess I touched a nerve. Well, that's good. Now you know how I felt.


And Earnie Shavers post is excellent.
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:11 PM   #54
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Isn't "We are all sinners" the same thing as saying "Nobody's perfect"?
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:28 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Isn't "We are all sinners" the same thing as saying "Nobody's perfect"?

Sin's a theological term which implies God. "Nobody's perfect" does not necessarily imply God.
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:36 PM   #56
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Let's get this straight. It is offensive to make a statement that may imply the existence of God?
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:56 PM   #57
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Let's get this straight. It is offensive to make a statement that may imply the existence of God?

No. I wasn't addressing the rest of the posts. I was just answering BrownEyedBoy's post about "We're all sinners" being the same as "Nobody's Perfect." I'm not offended by the term sin or the implication of the existence of God at all. I was just saying that if one does not believe in God, then the concept of sin has no real meaning. However, the concepts of good and evil may.
We have no battle here.
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Old 05-15-2005, 08:23 PM   #58
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Originally posted by beli
Its an offensive statement. Its like saying "I have found that works for me personally therefore everyone else needs the same thing". What is right for you, may not be right for anyone else let alone everyone else.
No, that's not right. If God exists, you don't need him because he "works for me". You need him because he is God.
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Old 05-15-2005, 08:25 PM   #59
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Originally posted by beli


Only someone who believed in God would make such a comment about disobeying God. In my opinion there is no God so there is no way to disobey him/her. Your fellow Christians are making these remarks.
The person who said that people who don't give to acertain charities aren't doing the "moral" thing is someone who used to consistently post negative remarks about Conservative Christians.
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Old 05-15-2005, 09:06 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

The person who said that people who don't give to acertain charities aren't doing the "moral" thing is someone who used to consistently post negative remarks about Conservative Christians.
I didn't think that Conservative Christians were the entire scope of Christians. Perhaps this person just had/has issues with one segment of the religion.
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